Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#41

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:47 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #28

WalterGR wrote: post #3

I haven’t read all 63 pages, but I’m surprised that the abstract doesn’t mention: All the $$$ that businesses get to save by eliminating or reducing office real estate, including $$$ saved by pushing some of those costs onto employees.

What costs? Even people who work from an office still usually have a home study or office for doing their bills or whatever. Do you mean electricity costs to run your laptop? What does that add up to?

The main argument--and really the only significant one--is that people choosing to live in dense cities near an urban employer suddenly need a bigger place which is $$$. But I don't actually expect many employers to not have an urban office (assuming they have one currently) for those who want to come in--albeit maybe in a hoteled type of arrangement. But eliminating routine commutes is a big win for most people who choose to take advantage of it.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#42

Post by throwaway45349 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #28

WalterGR wrote: post #3

I haven’t read all 63 pages, but I’m surprised that the abstract doesn’t mention: All the $$$ that businesses get to save by eliminating or reducing office real estate, including $$$ saved by pushing some of those costs onto employees.

What costs? Even people who work from an office still usually have a home study or office for doing their bills or whatever. Do you mean electricity costs to run your laptop? What does that add up to?

I live in the UK - very few places in London will have the space for a separate home office + space for family. It will get incredibly expensive if we all need to buy more space (and I'm not having my office setup in my living room forever).

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#43

Post by DC1350 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

WFH makes the new grad experience miserable if you go to college somewhere far from where you grew up. I’m graduating soon and the only place I have geographic ties to is my home town where I tried very hard to get away from forever. Everyone I know from college is scattering all over the continent. Does anyone have tips for choosing where to live as a remote worker, or how to make friends as a young person in a new city without an office? I’m feeling pretty lost. I don’t think I would ever accept a job that isn’t promising a return to the office as soon as possible

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#44

Post by varjag » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

Haunted_Cabbage wrote: post #35

varjag wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality of work is something people can argue about until they're blue in the face, but hours put are objective.

Hours of asses in chairs isn't really a measurement of goals being meet. The quality of the time spent is what gets the goals met.

Sure, most employers would take 8 hours of quality work over 4 hours of quality work for the same salary.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#45

Post by mech422 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

usremane wrote: post #5

Work from home for people living by themselves away from family (separated by countries) gets depressing and will most likely impact productivity at work.

While I fit the profile you mention...After 20 years WFH, I can't say I find it depressing. YMMV, but I think its how you do it. The lockdowns have probably made WFH seem a lot more isolating (no working from hacker spaces, coffe shops, etc.)

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#46

Post by ttul » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

All of the tech CEOs I talk to have plans to downsize their offices. All of them. Employee surveys strongly indicate a desire to work remotely as a permanent option, with the office being for meetings.

The OpEx on office space is significant - 10-15% of salary costs. So getting rid of the office or reducing its size and cost is like cutting pay by perhaps 5-7%. That’s a big deal.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#47

Post by throwaway45349 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #22

NestedLoopGoBrr wrote: post #6

I really hope it doesn’t. I miss the office. Workplace environments prevent myself from socially isolating beyond weekends at best — I know I’m not alone in that.

> Workplace environments prevent myself from socially isolating beyond weekends at best — I know I’m not alone in that. Can't you choose to go out and socialise if you want to outside work? (After COVID.) If we get rid of working from an office, then people who don't want to go out don't have to, and people who want to can still do anyway socially. Doesn't that sound like the best solution? Lets everyone choose what…

When I commuted to work, I was already in the centre of a huge city with lots of social opportunities after work (with friends who are nearby in other jobs). If I wanted to socialise daily it's likely I'd be doing something akin to a work commute anyway. That's partly why I enjoyed going out to work in the first place.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#48

Post by varjag » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #33

varjag wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality of work is something people can argue about until they're blue in the face, but hours put are objective.

But the results of the hours put aren't objective, so I don't get your point. I've known people who became masters at imitating work 8 hours a day.

I don't see how them imitating 8 hour work a day in say 2 actual hours is any improvement.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#49

Post by Smaug123 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

konjin wrote: post #25

One thing I don't see mentioned is the class action lawsuits that will be incoming for unsafe working environments. I haven't gotten the flu once last year, yet in open offices I got it like clockwork at the end of fall and at the start of spring. If covid is dangerous enough to lock down society yet is only x5 as deadly as bad flu seasons open offices are literal murder.

Did you really get the flu twice a year like clockwork? That must put you in like the top 0.01% of flu-getters; you have my sympathy.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#50

Post by Darmody » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

news_to_me wrote: post #23

WalterGR wrote: post #3

I haven’t read all 63 pages, but I’m surprised that the abstract doesn’t mention: All the $$$ that businesses get to save by eliminating or reducing office real estate, including $$$ saved by pushing some of those costs onto employees.

Hopefully we can get some legislation to correct for this. It seems like the sort of thing the labor market should balance out eventually, but... the labor market is pretty irrational all over the place, so I wouldn't trust it.

This is already being talked about in Europe. It'll probably end in some sort of bonus for the employee as they use their own computer powered by their home power supply and in most cases they have to buy extra stuff.