Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#71

Post by pdimitar » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:04 AM UTC

varjag wrote: post #64

pdimitar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You immediately assume people don't work which is not what I am seeing. Sure, some absolutely do, but you are making it look like everyone is more lazy in WFH conditions.

I don't assume anything, just going by with your hypothetical 8-hour slacker.

My bad then, but I still disagree that hours put are an objective metric. Yeah, sure, 8h have passed <- this can be measured objectively, but it's basically the only thing that can be measured objectively in a work setting.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#72

Post by konjin » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:05 AM UTC

throwaway45349 wrote: post #51

konjin wrote: post #25

One thing I don't see mentioned is the class action lawsuits that will be incoming for unsafe working environments. I haven't gotten the flu once last year, yet in open offices I got it like clockwork at the end of fall and at the start of spring. If covid is dangerous enough to lock down society yet is only x5 as deadly as bad flu seasons open offices are literal murder.

> If covid is dangerous enough to lock down society yet is only x5 as deadly as bad flu seasons open offices are literal murder. Flu is only deadly for a very small segment of society, though.

As is Covid.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#73

Post by cuddlybacon » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:05 AM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #8

croutonwagon wrote: post #4

The problem is multi-faceted. While this is entirely anecdotal I have observed a LOT of time theft by employees. And been asked more than ever to investigate employee behavior (even when I normally try and advise against the approach) Some more egregious than others. While most probably aren’t going to awol for a day at a time I know a LOT of people that now spend working hours doing leisure things. Maybe that’s a su…

Caring about the specific hours an employee is working rather than the quality of their output is something I hope dies along with mandatory physical presence in an office.

The post seemed to state both hours and output have dropped.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#74

Post by varjag » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:06 AM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #69

varjag wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many widgets will worker B make in 8 hours? Also, how many widgets will worker A make in 4 hours?

worker B will make 80 widgets in 8 hours and be unhappy because he knows the employer expects 80 and he's not going to work harder for no reward. Worker A will make 40 widgets in 4 hours.

Let's say worker B draws 2x salary of worker A, because he is known to be twice more experienced/skilled/productive.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#75

Post by wernercd » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:07 AM UTC

Working from home will stick FOR SOME... but not for others.

I have a long commute and don't miss it... i do miss the books/podcasts and I miss the office. I hope we go to a 3 day home, 2 day office but we'll see.

Managers like having butts in seats. we'll see how it goes long term

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#76

Post by zabzonk » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:09 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

> The commuting routine, even if it's a nightmare, offers a sense of normalcy that most people have gotten used to and in a weird way rely on for grounding.

You have obviously never been on the Tube at rush-hour in London. All it offers is a sense of stress and anger.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#77

Post by throwaway45349 » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:10 AM UTC

mech422 wrote: post #60

throwaway45349 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few companies have on-site gyms, snacks and child care. These are competitive advantages, and as long as top-tier SWEs are a sellers market, these businesses will have no choice but to spend money to attract talent. The cost of those things is a drop in the ocean compared to salaries anyway.

>>Very few companies have on-site gyms, snacks and child care. I'm not seeing your point here? it IS still a sellers market, and companies do pay for those things. So its still a savings for them. As for a 'drop in the bucket', I've seen companies try to save money by buying cheaper pens. So I'm sure cheaper rents, utilities, perks, etc. will be considered... edit: grammar

What I mean is that WFH employees will still demand perks, just of a different nature (maybe higher salaries). As long as the market dynamics we have today stick, employers will still be spending money on perks.

Just as employers can now access remote employees anywhere in the world, employees can access any company hiring remote.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#78

Post by konjin » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

pram wrote: post #52

ttul wrote: post #46

All of the tech CEOs I talk to have plans to downsize their offices. All of them. Employee surveys strongly indicate a desire to work remotely as a permanent option, with the office being for meetings. The OpEx on office space is significant - 10-15% of salary costs. So getting rid of the office or reducing its size and cost is like cutting pay by perhaps 5-7%. That’s a big deal.

Yeah this has to be long-term catastrophic for commercial real estate, which was already on the rocks. My previous company commissioned/leased and furnished an entire 12 story building in 2019, and now it's practically abandoned. Who is going lease such a thing afterwards? Seems grim to me.

Same thing as old industrial buildings: artists, then gentrification.

"This is the old converted office of Microsoft. In these very rooms people used to write the operating system that used to run the world."

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#79

Post by ppod » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

Only point 2 is from the employer's perspective, the employee has control over the others. While there is truth in those, I don't think people would naturally settle into a 5/7 day week just for those reasons. You'll see a spread with big differences in age groups/family situations, but the average days at the office will be much less than it was before.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#80

Post by crocodiletears » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 12:13 AM UTC

varjag wrote: post #67

ameister14 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most employers aren't actually operating with efficiency as the main goal. Look at it this way: worker A makes 10 widgets an hour. In 8 hours, he makes 80 widets. worker B makes 20 widgets an hour. In 4 hours, he makes 80 widgets. Why should the employer care about which one works more hours?

How many widgets will worker B make in 8 hours? Also, how many widgets will worker A make in 4 hours?

In my experience:

If worker worker A is not at risk of termination, bar any incentive program rewarding excess production, worker B will likely produce 80 widgets in 8 hours.