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Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

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Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#371

Post by duxup »

three_seagrass wrote: post #284
scohesc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I don't think it can be avoided - you can't have freedom of speech without having the worst of the worst be able to speak. I dislike the people that support facist, racist beliefs, but I 100% will defend their right to say such things. In my opinion, once you start talking about restricting speech, you get into the grey area - who decides what speech to restrict? Off the top of my head, the most "capab…

> I dislike the people that support facist, racist beliefs, but I 100% will defend their right to say such things. Even if allowing fascists and racists to express their speech actively harms or silences you in turn? Relevant: https://twitter.com/nathanwpyle/status/1031008855210123264/p...

Lets say I have a platform that someone used it to gather support for and planning some sort of attack on my local democracy.

Lat's say they're successful and they can impose their own policies that do not include free speech.

I'm pretty short on free speech now...

It's hard to ignore that.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#372

Post by iamdbtoo »

throwaway45349 wrote: post #171
iamdbtoo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely ignoring the catalyst for this was that a governement insurrection where 5 people, including some cops, were murdered was planned very heavily and also broadcasted on this service.

The capitol stuff was organised on Facebook, not Parler: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25776225 What about the Summer violence from BLM? Dozens of people died, with Twitter being used as a communications hub to attack specific individuals.

To compare the two is to ignore so much context I can't imagine you're being anything other than disingenuous.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#373

Post by iamdbtoo »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #190
throwaway45349 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capitol stuff was organised on Facebook, not Parler: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25776225 What about the Summer violence from BLM? Dozens of people died, with Twitter being used as a communications hub to attack specific individuals.

I also distinctly remember more fires, property damage, and calls to ruin peoples lives during the summer.

To compare the two is to ignore so much context I can't imagine you're being anything other than disingenuous.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#374

Post by iamdbtoo »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #179
iamdbtoo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely ignoring the catalyst for this was that a governement insurrection where 5 people, including some cops, were murdered was planned very heavily and also broadcasted on this service.

Glenn Greenwald reports that the planning was actually done mostly on Facebook and Youtube, not Parler: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/how-silicon-valley-in-a-sho...

Maybe he's right, but those companies are bigger and not as easy a target. Parler got beat down because they made themselves a target and have no leverage to defend themselves.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#375

Post by newacct583 »

kortilla wrote: post #357
tptacek wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, as I'm fond of pointing out: Amazon bounces people off AWS all the time , just like every hosting provider; abuse is a basic fact of life in hosting. Amazon will have no trouble establishing that what it did with Parler is routine, and that nobody could reasonably have an expectation that the AUP was merely performative.

For technology abuse (e.g. spamming, botnets, etc), legal reasons (cp, pii dumps, etc), or for not liking the content being hosted? What happened to Parler is not routine when you exclude all of the cases of blatant abuse of the service.

> or for not liking the content being hosted?

Parler was widely distributing violent content from major leaders (c.f. Lin Wood calling for Pence's execution) in a movement that reality showed was a real and not theoretical threat (c.f. the mob chanting "Hang Mike Pence!" in the rotunda).

I really, genuinely, truly don't understand why people insist on understanding this only in the context of partisan censorship. Parler had been around for years, uncensored. Almost all it's major accounts had history on Twitter for years before that (often having been kicked off for similarly violent content, btw).

If Big Tech really, truly wanted to censor conservative opinions for partisan benefit... why did they wait until months after the presidential election to do it?

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#376

Post by danans »

throwaway45349 wrote: post #236
mewse wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> isolating and pushing out so called "deplorables" is escalating the current American political conflicts to serious violence. Can you provide references that back up this claim? Bear in mind that the deplatforming began after January 6th of this year, so any escalating violence which may have occurred on or before that point is not evidence of your claim. And after the events of the 6th I imagine it’d be difficult…

The deplatforming has been going on for years, since at least 2016 when Trump was elected in the first place. In Twitter's case[0] they went after smaller users (edgy "russian bots") until ~2018, when they really ramped things up. This even hit left wing (anti-establishment) activists[1]. One of the conclusions of a recent purge by Reddit was that it just pushed the banned users into even more radical spaces online[2…

> But the deplatforming didn't make those people go away, it pushed them to platforms like Gab and Parler, right-wing echo chambers

It has the effect of preventing violent content from using adjacent nonviolent content (i.e. baby and pet pictures, nonviolent political advocacy) on the mainstream platforms as a kind of "human shield".

Of course, this is a disappointment for anyone who finds the normalization of violence-provoking content desirable.

The problem is that there already exist plenty of forums on the internet for non mainstream but non violent speech. The only speech seeking a home is the violent speech.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#377

Post by r00fus »

bilbo0s wrote: post #48
Threeve303 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering the site well to stay online might be beside the point now. Parler wanted to be taken down so that they could fight this legal battle, likely with an eye on Section 230. As an added bonus, they can frame the removal as persecution.

Clearly it's a battle they're likely to lose, but I wish them luck. The only way forward in my view is to actually change laws. Anything short of that, is a fool's errand. All this is already settled law and has been litigated previously multiple times. You have to change the law in order to reclassify these entities if you want things to change. What orgs like Parler keep doing right now is spitting into the wind.

They thought they were gonna be old Kanobi vs. Vader - vanquished but become more powerful.

It would have made sense if their belief system (ie, Trump and alt-right moving mountains to make them viable) were in place. Clearly that wasn't the case and they will be a footnote in history.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#378

Post by jhpriestley »

nostromo wrote: post #42
throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

If you read the news every day then you will certainly hear from the other half of the country. I just checked CNN's front page, and while most coverage focuses on the new President, these three articles all feature right-wing viewpoints:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/2024-republican-prim... https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/fact-check-marjorie-... https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/01/21/conspiracy-th...

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#379

Post by ABeeSea »

nickysielicki wrote: post #138
tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

IANAL and I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, but I do think the case is more interesting than just AWS booting a malicious customer (with regards to their TOS). > there's the fact that AWS doesn't host Twitter's feed This is funny (as in, LOL funny) to point out because it makes parler seem completely inept, but it's only technically correct. They just negotiated a fat contract to host twitter, and that'…

AWS also a a very large contract with another Twitter competitor: Pinterest

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#380

Post by 8note »

throwaway45349 wrote: post #107
tptacek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of Parler directly contravenes the AWS AUP, which demands that companies ensure their users comply with AWS's AUP and that companies kick users that don't. The whole point of Parler is to host Twitter users who violate Twitter's TOS, which is a cohort significantly comprised of people who are also violating AWS's TOS. To believe that Parler would have been viable on AWS to begin with, they had to actively…

I get it, companies do not legally have to provide these services to right-wing groups persecuted off of Twitter. I'm saying that it's _morally_ wrong to deplatform. Not necessarily because I enjoy having this speech hosted, but because isolating and pushing out so called "deplorables" is escalating the current American political conflicts to serious violence. As I said in my other comment, when the disenfranchised c…

Is it platforming or deplatforming that is causing the escalation though?

When the white nationalists did not have a platform, was the escalation higher or lower than it is now? Granting them platforms seems like the issue that started the escalation to me.

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