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Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

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Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#101

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

navbaker wrote: post #39

I've been seeing posts from some of my more conservative friends pop up in my FB feed advertising their imminent departure for MeWe. My surface level Google research tells me MeWe bills their service as "lightly moderated". I'm wondering how long before the spotlight gets turned on them and they're forced to either up their standards or face the same fate?

It's not obvious to me that the spotlight has any special powers to make companies adopt high moderation standards. 4chan is still up, after all.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#102

Post by vlunkr »

unethical_ban wrote: post #3

I've been trying to come to grips with the societal impact of echo chambers, "hate" speech, and the obligations vs. rights of sites and hosting providers. So far, my take is that websites have less obligation than hosting. It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues - I am leaning more and more to the idea that colos, IaaS and ISPs should be considered common carriers, and that only a c…

I worked for a very small hosting company and we had to automatically detect and remove bitcoin miners because they were so common, I can't even imagine what AWS deals with. If AWS had to get a court order every time someone tried to do something illegal, or against TOS on their platform, the courts would be flooded immediately.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#103

Post by svachalek »

klmadfejno wrote: post #19
throwawayboise wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things always start with moves that sound completely reasonable. Only time will tell if they expand their moderation demands.

Sure. And yet, completely reasonable things overwhelmingly tend not to lead to extreme outcomes. Only time will tell, but the point is that this is hardly an urgent warning sign.

Indeed, this line of thinking is known as the Slippery Slope Fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#104

Post by xxpor »

nostromo wrote: post #42
throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

When you have polarization along educational and age lines with the left on the higher education and younger side, it's inevitable they'll have cultural power.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#105

Post by michaelmior »

snoshy wrote: post #25
tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

It seemed apparent right when the case was filed that Parler didn't have a leg to stand on. It was partly a play for publicity that plays well into their customer demographics, and a dying gasp of trying to seek some kind of injunctive help from the administration, no matter how impossible it seemed. Judging by how weak their infrastructure was in the first place, getting any kind of resilient hosting in place after…

I know effectively zero about Parler's infrastructure, but I would say it's not that uncommon to build a product tied specifically to AWS. What really surprised me though is that it took them days to get even a static homepage up.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#106

Post by ravenstine »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #47
throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

> It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Parler wasn't dropped for making Amazon look bad. Parler was dropped for repeatedly failing to address blatant terms of service violations. AWS still hosts the National Enquirer, the magazine that literally tried to blackmail Jeff Bezos. AWS is hardly in the habit of r…

> Twitter doesn't have perfect execution of their moderation across all of their tweets, obviously, but they are at least making a good faith effort to remove content that has explicit calls to violence.

Isn't that mainly due to their amount of revenue? Are newer services supposed to be shut down because they can't(yet?) compete with Twitter on budget for moderation?

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#107

Post by throwaway45349 »

tptacek wrote: post #44
throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

The premise of Parler directly contravenes the AWS AUP, which demands that companies ensure their users comply with AWS's AUP and that companies kick users that don't. The whole point of Parler is to host Twitter users who violate Twitter's TOS, which is a cohort significantly comprised of people who are also violating AWS's TOS. To believe that Parler would have been viable on AWS to begin with, they had to actively…

I get it, companies do not legally have to provide these services to right-wing groups persecuted off of Twitter. I'm saying that it's _morally_ wrong to deplatform.

Not necessarily because I enjoy having this speech hosted, but because isolating and pushing out so called "deplorables" is escalating the current American political conflicts to serious violence.

As I said in my other comment, when the disenfranchised can't speak, they get violent. If you disagree with these people, say that to them. Cutting them off from the mainstream public squares like Twitter and Facebook just creates a new generation of radicals.

Silicon Valley used to stand for freedom of speech for a reason.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#108

Post by triceratops »

mc32 wrote: post #68
triceratops wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting how much actual political power the right in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. The Senate and electoral college favor them massively. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to change any laws that might counter their preferences.

One set of influencers is elected and held to account, the other is largely unaccountable.

> One set of influencers is elected and held to account

Are they, though?

> the other is largely unaccountable

No the market will hold them to account.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#109

Post by richardARPANET »

GavinMcG wrote: post #80
richardARPANET wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropped by Amazon, in coordination with both App Stores just as it reached #1 ranked app. Really really interesting.

Not everything is a grand conspiracy. Sometimes society really isn't okay with what you're doing.

Exactly, it's not a conspiracy if they're telling you they're doing it: https://twitter.com/Policy/status/1349059276975857664

It's a big club, and you ain't in it.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#110

Post by mercurialshark »

acdha wrote: post #71
mercurialshark wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech attorney here (with no relation to this specific matter). I wouldn't say they don't have a leg to stand on. I think it will prove to be very interesting.

Can you explain?

Sure, I'll circle back with a longer form response in a few minutes. In the meantime, I find it interesting that people think down voting my comment will intimidate me into changing the analysis. That's not how legal judgment works. That's not how anything works...
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