New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects • Hacker News Board

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#41

Post by jdxcode » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #19

api wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My secondhand understanding was that Intel was losing top talent due to pressure to pay closer to median industry compensation. Top engineers recognized they were underpaid and left the company. This is what happens when you're run by bean counters who don't understand your core business or industry.

In the same/similar vein it never ceases to amaze me how employers don't provide their employees with the best tools possible (within reason) to do their jobs. A company will give a developer a low/mid-range laptop/desktop pinching every penny they can then turn around any pay them a huge salary... Like do they not understand that running into RAM/CPU limits makes the developer less effective? I've had jobs where I'v…

I had a friend that worked for Intel and he had the absolute worst work laptop of anyone I know. I can't recall what it was exactly, but I remember it even had a low tier Intel chip.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#42

Post by 95014_refugee » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

clubdorothe wrote: post #4

They've probably lost[1] few months ago their most talented chips engineer, Jim Keller[2]. Ironically, Jim suggested to outsource the manufacturing of their chips, what the new CEO just did [3]. [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/15846/jim-keller-resigns-from... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) [3] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/319301-report-intel-wi...

“Losing” Keller is a net win.

Hinton, OTOH, is the real deal. I had the privilege of spending some time with him and the gang back in the Nehalem days.

Hinton and Keller don’t belong in the same conversation.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#43

Post by dehrmann » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

RocketSyntax wrote: post #10

hehehaha wrote: post #6

It appears INTC is serious about correcting the wrongs and doing it right. I’d be worried if I am Lisa Su at AMD.

Err. shouldn't the real competitors be viewed as ARM and M1?

ARM: maybe. Intel would be smart to make an ARM CPU. M1: probably not. Apple never really knew how to sell servers, and having a premium brand means they can't sell low-end laptops, so the market for something between a Chromebook, iPad mini, and low-end Macbook Air will still be x86 (maybe Intel, maybe AMD, whichever's cheapest) until ARM Windows is a thing.

ARM in the datacenter should be Intel's main fear.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#44

Post by joshstrange » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #26

joshstrange wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same/similar vein it never ceases to amaze me how employers don't provide their employees with the best tools possible (within reason) to do their jobs. A company will give a developer a low/mid-range laptop/desktop pinching every penny they can then turn around any pay them a huge salary... Like do they not understand that running into RAM/CPU limits makes the developer less effective? I've had jobs where I'v…

Mine gave me a top of the line MacBook Pro, fully loaded. Then loaded so much security crap on it that all cores are maxed out without me even touching machine. Base vim nearly unusable. Then they made it so I could only access things via a double Remote Desktop tunnel. Basically an expensive space heater. 3 months of nothing done until security software suffered an unfortunate accident.

Ugh, this is something that friends of mine have to deal with. Thankfully my current employer sent me a new MBP with nothing on it but the core OS. It does annoy me they didn't get the 32GB version, like it was ~$400 to bump that up but no. I've easily spent more than $400 worth of time watching a beachball spin while I find what is eating all my memory.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#45

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

alisonkisk wrote: post #27

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

This is an encouraging move. My secondhand understanding was that Intel was losing top talent due to pressure to pay closer to median industry compensation. Top engineers recognized they were underpaid and left the company. I've been part of a similar downhill slide at a smaller company in the billion dollar revenue range. To be blunt, once the [mediocre] MBAs start realizing that the engineers are getting paid more…

Steve Jobs, already legendary for avoiding paying engineers for their contributions, organized an industry-wide cartel to hold down wages, and he never had an MBA. It's a bad leadership thing, not an MBA thing.

It's not bad leadership to hold down the costs of your key inputs. It's bad leadership to do that if doing so undermines the position of your company in the market.

The handful of Apple engineers I know are incredibly happy and devoted to their work at Apple and being paid 50% more to work for Google would feel like a step backward to them.

That, in combination with their business results is, to me, evidence of excellent leadership at Apple.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#46

Post by tonyhb » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

HelloNurse wrote: post #33

_the_inflator wrote: post #21

I like it when the old gang comes together and blends with new talent.

On the other hand, returning veterans could have a strong demotivational effect on current talent. If the company doesn't believe in me, why should I stay?

If the new talent isn't performing, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. And for those who stay, they'll get to learn and work with the people who have a track record of being great.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#47

Post by jtsiskin » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

mikewarot wrote: post #36

If he's going to focus on maximizing threads instead of performance per thread, they'll come out on top. The race to make a single instruction thread move ever faster has obviously hit its limits as the main driver of overall compute performance. If they keep pushing the old model of ever more GHz, they'll fail.

That depends on if developers can be convinced to actually use multiple threads...

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#48

Post by Pasorrijer » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #19

api wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My secondhand understanding was that Intel was losing top talent due to pressure to pay closer to median industry compensation. Top engineers recognized they were underpaid and left the company. This is what happens when you're run by bean counters who don't understand your core business or industry.

In the same/similar vein it never ceases to amaze me how employers don't provide their employees with the best tools possible (within reason) to do their jobs. A company will give a developer a low/mid-range laptop/desktop pinching every penny they can then turn around any pay them a huge salary... Like do they not understand that running into RAM/CPU limits makes the developer less effective? I've had jobs where I'v…

Oh man, this. I remember I worked at a major defence contractor, and we absolutely bombed, like failed through the floor an employee satisfaction survey. And when the VP finally sat down with people they expressed how shitty the computers had gotten. And he's like wait a second. No one ever told me this. I can solve 90% of my morale problems by writing a cheque for like $200k?!?

It was astounding how large the disconnect had grown between management and the front line. And also astounding how cheaply the employee morale was fixed once he wrote that cheque.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#49

Post by flatline » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

This is an encouraging move. My secondhand understanding was that Intel was losing top talent due to pressure to pay closer to median industry compensation. Top engineers recognized they were underpaid and left the company. I've been part of a similar downhill slide at a smaller company in the billion dollar revenue range. To be blunt, once the [mediocre] MBAs start realizing that the engineers are getting paid more…

Engineering capability and financial savvy are somewhat orthogonal. You will keep some top performers and lose others by paying median wages. Some people also simply value stability or find other aspects of the job worthwhile over seeking higher compensation. It's also really easy not to take into account all avenues of compensation: salary, healthcare, bonuses, retirement, tax-advantaged vehicles such as HSAs, stock options - I'd say at least half of the employees in any field are mostly clueless about finances at this level, take a glance at base salary and make a rough decision whether it's good enough.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#50

Post by quacker » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

95014_refugee wrote: post #42

clubdorothe wrote: post #4

They've probably lost[1] few months ago their most talented chips engineer, Jim Keller[2]. Ironically, Jim suggested to outsource the manufacturing of their chips, what the new CEO just did [3]. [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/15846/jim-keller-resigns-from... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) [3] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/319301-report-intel-wi...

“Losing” Keller is a net win. Hinton, OTOH, is the real deal. I had the privilege of spending some time with him and the gang back in the Nehalem days. Hinton and Keller don’t belong in the same conversation.

Can you elaborate? I'm an outsider. I see that both have proven track records. What makes Hinton the significantly better choice?