The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college • Hacker News Board

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#21

Post by dustingetz » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

DC1350 wrote: post #12

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure…

I think you can factor the idea of loss of community without the other stuff – solely anchored on increasing hypercompetition at global scale in a winner-takes-most markets that are no longer constrained by geography. And that's bad, because this model precludes investing in community-local concerns like teaching, children and social safety nets that are hugely +EV for us all but there is no clear way to inject a centralized private investment (and siphon off enough value to attract said investment).

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#22

Post by Bakary » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

tester34 wrote: post #6

Why would you want to go to college, have huge debt and learn things (CS) that's avaliable on the internet for free? even courses from an actual edu institutions like mit, stanford and so on The only thing I think is knowning people from the industry and seeing what cool stuff other people do, but otherwise? I just graduated with engineering degree that I've done on weekends while working full time as SE and I'd neve…

By definition YMMV but the people you meet and the experience as a whole make it 100% worth it (maybe 30% for American prices depending on your social class)

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#23

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

hertzrat wrote: post #3

> While enrollment in higher education overall fell 2.5 percent in the fall, or by more than 461,000 students compared to the fall of 2019, the decline among men was more than seven times as steep as the decline among women, according to an analysis of figures from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center. 7x is a big multiple. The article offers some explanations but not enough to get me past the “wow” res…

> The bigger picture is just that the 60/40 split between college educations has flipped to favour women now, and was the opposite a decade ago, but the short term 7x is still crazy

The 60/40 split was the opposite in the 1960s, not a decade ago. This was a time where women were widely regarded to disenfranchised.

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#24

Post by chaorace » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

DC1350 wrote: post #12

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure…

Respectfully, this logic reminds me of the leaps commonly seen in crackpot conspiracy theories. I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest, let alone polygamy.

Critical thinking time. Is there an established link between female self-esteem and polygamy? Let's suppose there is, does polygamy actually hurt communities? Where's the evidence for that? If women are more well-off, is it a zero-sum game that makes men less well-off? If it is zero-sum, are economically insecure young men any more likely to cause civil unrest than economically insecure young women?

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#25

Post by PicassoCTs » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

DC1350 wrote: post #12

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure…

It already has

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#26

Post by PicassoCTs » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

chaorace wrote: post #24

DC1350 wrote: post #12

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure…

Respectfully, this logic reminds me of the leaps commonly seen in crackpot conspiracy theories. I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest, let alone polygamy . Critical thinking time. Is there an established link between female self-esteem and polygamy? Let's suppose there is, does polygamy actually hurt communities? Where's the evidence for that? If women a…

Actually, there are several studies of places in the world were polygamy is connected to social unrest. Sudan comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War

Of course the "reason" is usually something else. Nobody writes 100x"InCel" on a manifesto.

Religious morals, if stripped of the whole superstitious nonsense, leaves behind the "everybody gets a chance" pacifier. For all other forms of society its boils down too some feudal harem dropping a few outdated flowers and one is desperate enough to pick from the outdated left-over men-heap.

This always was and has been a solid basis for civil war, for if all you got is your life,and there is no perspective for it to ever be good, why not put it as bargaining chip into the ultimate equalizing game - which civil war is.

Sorry to say it, but all those nice little social games like ménage à trois are entertainment for those who never came near these problems. And i doubt that a lot of those advocating for this as solution, ever were poor enough, long enough & lonely enough, to not become "clingy and desperate", aka jealousy. While we are at it - may i also point out, that the usual - all female secretary pool at headquarters- suspiciously looks like economic opportunity harems and thus a lot of commentary by company owners will be very tone-deaf by nature.

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#27

Post by DC1350 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

chaorace wrote: post #24

DC1350 wrote: post #12

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure…

Respectfully, this logic reminds me of the leaps commonly seen in crackpot conspiracy theories. I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest, let alone polygamy . Critical thinking time. Is there an established link between female self-esteem and polygamy? Let's suppose there is, does polygamy actually hurt communities? Where's the evidence for that? If women a…

Economic equality means women don't need to pair up with men for utility reasons anymore, which means a lot of men will be leftovers since this has historically made up a huge chunk of all marriages. Polygamy or at least polyamory follows since sexual and emotional needs are better met by one man to many women pairings. This is very easy since online dating creates a super efficient market where most women have hundreds of options and most men have very few. Unmarried and sexually frustrated young men are generally unsatisfied with life and prone to engage in antisocial activity.

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#28

Post by grawprog » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

chaorace wrote: post #24

DC1350 wrote: post #12

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure…

Respectfully, this logic reminds me of the leaps commonly seen in crackpot conspiracy theories. I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest, let alone polygamy . Critical thinking time. Is there an established link between female self-esteem and polygamy? Let's suppose there is, does polygamy actually hurt communities? Where's the evidence for that? If women a…

> I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest,

The French Revolution begs to differ.

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#29

Post by 908B64B197 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #19

I think there is a big open space for a new kind of institution for higher learning: Shorter, more focused careers, no SJW bullshit, no expensive administrators overhead, partially or completely online, open to a worldwide population. I am aware things like CC and technical schools exists but there is a probably undeserved stigma that they are 'inferior', we need this as a solid,widely respected alternative.

There are bootcamps for that.

> widely respected alternative

If someone ever creates one, it will take off. Meanwhile pretty much all what's on the market right now is snake oil

Re: The pandemic is speeding up the mass exodus of men from college

#30

Post by 908B64B197 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

DC1350 wrote: post #13

tester34 wrote: post #6

Why would you want to go to college, have huge debt and learn things (CS) that's avaliable on the internet for free? even courses from an actual edu institutions like mit, stanford and so on The only thing I think is knowning people from the industry and seeing what cool stuff other people do, but otherwise? I just graduated with engineering degree that I've done on weekends while working full time as SE and I'd neve…

The reason college has been so useful historically is because it works as a status signal. I don’t think employers seriously believe that a BA in history teaches useful skills for a menial office job (1 semester is probably enough), but that doesn’t stop it from being a good idea for the student. It could be similar in CS. Anecdotally, the biggest benefit of a degree for me was just meeting others with similar goals.…

> I don’t think employers seriously believe that a BA in history teaches useful skills for a menial office job

Teaches to write properly. You can't graduate from a BA in history without writing non-trivial papers and having some ability of conveying critical thinking.

> Anecdotally, the biggest benefit of a degree for me was just meeting others with similar goals. The meta knowledge about how to get a job, what skills I need, credibility when contacting recruiters, etc. along with the positive peer pressure from being around more successful students. These things are were all “unknown unknowns” before I started. My hometown has no tech industry.

You nailed it. These are impossible to replicate with online learning.