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Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

reuters.com

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Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#91

Post by ceilingcorner »

TameAntelope wrote: post #89
ceilingcorner wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your host, domain registrar, payment processor, credit card company, and every social media channel decides to ban you, it is more or less equal to being banned from the Internet. We have a term for this already: the chilling effect.

No it isn't, that is simply not true. There are more hosting providers, ISPs, payment processors, et al. than there are stars in the sky. Stop lying, you know better.

It’s akin to having your restaurant banned from being within city limits. Sure, you can still set up a stall in the desert outside the city walls - no one is stopping you. But when 99.99% of the population is in the city center, is this a meaningful distinction?

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#92

Post by TameAntelope »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #91
TameAntelope wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't, that is simply not true. There are more hosting providers, ISPs, payment processors, et al. than there are stars in the sky. Stop lying, you know better.

It’s akin to having your restaurant banned from being within city limits. Sure, you can still set up a stall in the desert outside the city walls - no one is stopping you. But when 99.99% of the population is in the city center, is this a meaningful distinction?

Again, you know this analogy is wrong because it implies a relevance to proximity that doesn't exist on the Internet, and yet you continue to put it forward.

You are being either disingenuous or fundamentally misunderstand what a right to speech is (namely, it is not a right to be heard, only a right to speak freely).

Additionally, you are forgetting that the Internet does not exist independent of physical reality. There are plenty of ways to get attention in physical reality that directly translate to traffic to your voice on the Internet.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#93

Post by ceilingcorner »

TameAntelope wrote: post #92
ceilingcorner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s akin to having your restaurant banned from being within city limits. Sure, you can still set up a stall in the desert outside the city walls - no one is stopping you. But when 99.99% of the population is in the city center, is this a meaningful distinction?

Again, you know this analogy is wrong because it implies a relevance to proximity that doesn't exist on the Internet, and yet you continue to put it forward. You are being either disingenuous or fundamentally misunderstand what a right to speech is (namely, it is not a right to be heard, only a right to speak freely). Additionally, you are forgetting that the Internet does not exist independent of physical reality. T…

Proximity on the Internet absolutely matters. If you are banned from social media and your page is on the 1000th page of google results, you have no proximity to centers of attention.

And just a tip - leave out the “you know you’re wrong, you know you’re lying” comments. They’re unnecessary, condescending, and don’t help your argument.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#94

Post by TameAntelope »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #93
TameAntelope wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you know this analogy is wrong because it implies a relevance to proximity that doesn't exist on the Internet, and yet you continue to put it forward. You are being either disingenuous or fundamentally misunderstand what a right to speech is (namely, it is not a right to be heard, only a right to speak freely). Additionally, you are forgetting that the Internet does not exist independent of physical reality. T…

Proximity on the Internet absolutely matters. If you are banned from social media and your page is on the 1000th page of google results, you have no proximity to centers of attention. And just a tip - leave out the “you know you’re wrong, you know you’re lying” comments. They’re unnecessary, condescending, and don’t help your argument.

I'm angry that people like you continue to willfully misrepresent how the Internet works, and I'm having a hard time controlling that anger. I'm sorry about that.

Proximity on the Internet matters if you're trying to start the next Twitter. It does not matter if you're trying to exercise your right to freely speak. There are plenty of ways in which you can make your voice very vocally heard that don't involve the Internet at all.

To put it another way, you don't have to advertise an Internet location exclusively on the Internet. In fact, you have no right to advertisement or audience on the Internet at all.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#95

Post by ceilingcorner »

TameAntelope wrote: post #94
ceilingcorner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proximity on the Internet absolutely matters. If you are banned from social media and your page is on the 1000th page of google results, you have no proximity to centers of attention. And just a tip - leave out the “you know you’re wrong, you know you’re lying” comments. They’re unnecessary, condescending, and don’t help your argument.

I'm angry that people like you continue to willfully misrepresent how the Internet works, and I'm having a hard time controlling that anger. I'm sorry about that. Proximity on the Internet matters if you're trying to start the next Twitter. It does not matter if you're trying to exercise your right to freely speak. There are plenty of ways in which you can make your voice very vocally heard that don't involve the Int…

It isn’t anyone else’s problem that you can’t control your anger.

Yes, clearly places like Speaker’s Corner exist in real life. That is not up for debate. The issue is that an extremely small amount of American corporations are allowed to decide what is deemed acceptable to discuss online. If deemed unacceptable, you are relegated to the outskirts and often denied access to say, credit. (This has actually happened.) Do you not see the issue with this?

It’s precisely like my city center example. Yes, in literal terms you are free to start your restaurant outside the city. No one is preventing you. In practical, real life terms that actually affect real culture, it absolutely matters. Especially when you decide to exile so many people outside the city that they become radicalized and start attacking you. Creating more echo chambers doesn’t help anyone.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#96

Post by _v7gu »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #88
_v7gu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate them, most Turks know what to do with the addresses 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 from the time they were an effective way to circumvent the old youtube block

You don't think that most of any country know that, do you? How many Turks, or people at all, do you know with an i.q. of 100?

The moment a piece of knowledge becomes important, it can spread fast enough to reach almost everyone. "open this in settings, enter these numbers for youtube" doesn't require average iq to remember. And even if you can't recall, you can refer those in need to the person who told you.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#97

Post by TeMPOraL »

pjc50 wrote: post #58
throwaway313371 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was here for the coup where 200 people died and another 2,000 were injured. None of us like AKP or Tayipp, but you really need to shut your mouth hoping that a muslim extremist (Fetullah Gülen) should have taken over the country. Really, that's like hoping that the Evangelical white supremacists had succeeded in taking over the USA last week. wtf is wrong with you? Why do you want terrorists to take over the ONLY d…

This has been a bit of a problem in the West of backing "rebels" indiscriminately without checking if their politics is actually worse than the politics of those they're rebelling against.

Rebels are backed not for their politics, but because of policy goals of the backer. Policy goals like "preventing a communist government from forming/working", or "preventing a government from messing with oil trade". If the rebels turn out to be trouble, there will be a next generation of rebels to back to counter the previously backed one. Or some pretext to invade will present itself.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#98

Post by vbezhenar »

golondon wrote: post #35
antibuddy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that the US has the same double standards, but enforced by silicon valley corps themselves in union. Moral of the story: Power currupts.

It's not the same thing. As long as you don't cause violence or you're not violating the terms of service which you accepted while joining to the service, they wouldn't remove your content or block you. Of course, you can come up with one off examples of ML models screwing things up but it's not the intention while developing those models. Turkish government's intention here is getting content that criticise them rem…

I read Twitter's reasoning for banning Trump. Basically they banned him for tweets:

“The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”

“To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.”

I don't see any violence in those tweets and I don't understand what kind of person could classify those tweets as a violent ones. I guess only kind of person who wanted to ban him for anything.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#99

Post by golondon »

nlitened wrote: post #57
golondon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same thing. As long as you don't cause violence or you're not violating the terms of service which you accepted while joining to the service, they wouldn't remove your content or block you. Of course, you can come up with one off examples of ML models screwing things up but it's not the intention while developing those models. Turkish government's intention here is getting content that criticise them rem…

> As long as you don't cause violence or you're not violating the terms of service which you accepted while joining to the service, they wouldn't remove your content or block you. If I remember correctly, a lot of violence and multiple revolutions happened with the help of Twitter and YouTube all over the world. As long as violence is not in the US, it does not count, I suppose. That was probably what GP meant by say…

I would agree with this. Various world leaders did 10x of what Trump did on Twitter, but since it wasn’t in the US no actions were taken.

Re: Turkey imposes advertising bans on Twitter, Periscope and Pinterest

#100

Post by sercand »

nradov wrote: post #64
kuter wrote: post #62

Facebook and Google decided to have representatives.I fear that Twitter might decide to have it's own representative. It would be a nightmare here if these companies start censoring everything that the government asks for. Erdoğan is starting loose support. AKP (his party) lost all 3 of the major cities in local elections. I think the best scenario for Turkey would be Facebook and Google deciding to pull out their re…

Using a VPN doesn't require a lot of education, especially if someone else sets it up for you. I think they'll figure it out. The bigger issue will be if Turkey follows China's example and implements a national firewall to block VPNs.

Most of the popular VPNs are already blocked in Turkey. Before that, most people was using VPNs to access the internet. Nowadays we can only use privately deployed VPN.
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