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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#611

Post by AshWolfy »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #513
acdha wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever made decision to move him into the bunker doesn’t change the fact that the protesters did not go past the gates or otherwise do anything which was unusual from decades of protests – which happen all of the time in DC. You are clearly desperate to portray a false equivalence but that simply doesn’t fit the facts.

So what about rioters burning the entrance and exit to Ted Wheelers home in Portland (which he wasn't even present at)? Would you agree the actions there were also attempts at murder and destruction of property of a duly elected official? To act like the past year has had nothing in comparison to insanity .. is well insane. Theses Capital idiots are just that Idiots and they'll see time in court. What's not clear is…

Maybe Ted Wheeler shouldnt have gassed peaceful protesters, passing drivers, and literally just entire neighborhoods

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#612

Post by viraptor »

gfodor wrote: post #608
dragonwriter wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, but that wasn’t the claim. The claim was that he called on people to storm the capitol. Doing so with coded language where his audience would understand his true meaning while he could maintain superficial deniability if the uprising failed would still be such a call.

There is a difference between saying it was a call, and saying you believe it was a call. There is evidence to the contrary, so we at best cannot be sure without some kind of due process. People are free to believe what they want, of course. If someone is going to claim they are not trumpeting a narrative and are making fact based claims, and not opinions based on their interpretation of words and events, then I will…

At some point you have to start reading the intended rather than literal meaning. Otherwise "it would be shame if your shop burned down" is just a friendly warning for the future, not an extortion. There's a lot of grey area which can be interpreted in context of what people usually do, where their interest lies and what they don't immediately speak out against.

As usual, Simpsons already did it, and claiming there's no relation there is like claiming the tattoo really says "the Bart, the" in German.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#613

Post by rodgerd »

Aerroon wrote: post #146
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Free expression is chaotic. It always has been and it always will be. It will always have lies and misinformation, some people will even believe the lies. But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. Speech that is free will always seed doubt against ideas, regardless whether those ideas are true or false. It's an avenue that allows anything to be questione…

> But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control.

Yeah, right up until you're talked into electing a dictator.

It's just as well that's never happened!

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#614

Post by CA0DA »

smsm42 wrote: post #404
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

> The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. That would be a crappy democracy if it could be eroded by a bunch of idiots taking an unauthorized Whitehouse tour. Fortunately, absolutely nothing happened to the democracy and it proceeded on its course. What could actually erode the democracy is nation giving up on free speech. That'd be a real sign of nation in severe distress. > I don't listen to your news…

Thank you!

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#615

Post by foolinaround »

ogre_codes wrote: post #526
foolinaround wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am trying to steer our discussion past the politics of this. It is clear that there exists today violent content on both twitter and FB as well, but that is beside the point. > If Parler implements moderation which will comply with Amazon's terms of service Can you point to where in AWS TOS this is defined? We need to agree first that this is a subjective decision on AWS part, regardless of which side of the aisle…

> Can you point to where in AWS TOS this is defined? It's laid out in the court documents. https://deadline.com/2021/01/amazon-court-filing-parler-for-... > We need to agree first that this is a subjective decision on AWS part, regardless of which side of the aisle we fall on. I'm not sure what you are talking about here? We need to agree that Amazon's Terms of Service are subjective? Or are we going to start digging…

let me step back 1 more time...

forget court cases, Parler - what its doing etc.

-- lets focus on tech perspective

take a tech CTO, who looks at AWS TOS. Do you find any terms that provide details on the moderation needed? There can be any number of apps and business models -- so when his company gets such a notice, what can be done?

there was also the case of a baker who disagreed to serve gay people with their wedding cakes, and amazon TOS also has rules against discrimination. This case went to courts etc but lets say this guy has his site on AWS. In a similar vein, AWS could also dump this guy right?

So far, one looked as AWS as infrastructure just like your electric, phone or gas company - going forward, there will be a re-think here.

Basically my point is that whatever is not in your control can be taken away from you. And in these days of SaaS and Cloud computing, pretty much most of it is not in your control.

This is a huge risk, and new business models will emerge to help mitigate this risk

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#616

Post by FireBeyond »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #569
newacct583 wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress was sacked while the legislators were in session with the VP. BLM burned down a Wendy's. You really don't see why people would react differently to those events?

You really don't see that dozens of deaths, 7+ Billion in damage, the attempts to overthrow elected officials as well as security institutions such as police departments in the same light? You're selectively choosing a wendy's to try and draw away from the same exact actions. Guillotines have been present at multiple protests the past year. Breaking of windows of federal, state, and public buildings. Large amounts of…

> the attempts to overthrow elected officials

What attempts were there with respect to BLM to violently overthrow elected officials (because violently is the word here, zip ties, firearms, nooses and gallows)?

Setting fire to a police station, though unacceptable, vandalizing a mayor's residence, unacceptable is not remotely the same thing as "trying to overthrow elected officials".

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#617

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

smichel17 wrote: post #579
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your description of democracy is on the nose, but that's exactly why I think it's reasonable to be concerned. One of the critical values that makes democracy work is the peaceful transition of power, and if there'd been just a bit more violence, it would be impossible to maintain even a polite fiction that this transition was peaceful.

We've still survived worse. The civil war comes to mind (although in some ways, current tensions are an extension of that conflict).

"Survived" is just a very low bar. I'm not scared of the US becoming Mad Max - I'm scared of something like the Troubles, where democratic institutions still exist but struggle to maintain the peace against large, powerful groups who don't consider them legitimate.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#618

Post by FireBeyond »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #593
newacct583 wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress was sacked while the legislators were in session with the VP...

Sure, and it's fucking stupid they didn't have appropriate security given the nature of the day. The insurrection didn't start on that day. If the label is being applied, it started when police were assaulted, innocents were maimed and murdered, mass scale breakdowns of security and control were in play, and collectives attempted things as extraneous as declaring parts of the United States an Autonomous zone, a clear…

Fucking stupid? It seems at this point to be quite likely deliberate. Multiple requests for aid were refused, or ignored. The security at the Capitol was half the size as it was when a group of army veterans marched for disabled vets rights a few years ago.

That's not fucking stupid, that's an entirely deliberate and reasoned choice.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#619

Post by mistermann »

geofft wrote: post #400
mistermann wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you articulate a plausible (does not rely on significant speculation or hypotheticals) series of events at the Capitol incident that could have resulted in democracy being legitimately lost in America? I am unable to come up with one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_189... No hypotheticals - this one actually happened, and the resulting undemocratic government was seen as legitimate and retained power. (To be clear, democracy once lost can be regained, but it was unambiguously lost.)

In your assessment, are the attributes (a significant number of the plausibly impactful ones, not just one or two insignificant ones that happen to match) of that event highly similar to the event at the US Capitol in 2021?
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