Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#511

Post by znkynz » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

gabereiser wrote: post #454

apple_innocent wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have any "disaster recovery" plans in place, what you would do if the cloud failed. I think looking at this issue with the example of "Parler" may be missing the point. The issue worth debating is surely not whether Amazon made the right decision. Of course they did. The issue worth discussing is who gets to make this decision in light of what the decision implies. Due to how much businesses are choosing[1] t…

Disaster recovery was a hot topic. Most transformations kept DR within the cloud. A few architectures wanted to fail over to another public cloud (AWS->Azure). The issue of “de-platforming” still exists. Most wanted to get rid of the on-prem costs without keeping a rack around for DR. You’re absolutely right that the real meat of discussion needs to be how a cloud company like AWS makes these decisions? What criteria…

Enterprise customers, of signficant volume, do indeed get custom agreements. (Or at least, they used to be able to do so.)

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#512

Post by roland35 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #438

smsm42 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. That would be a crappy democracy if it could be eroded by a bunch of idiots taking an unauthorized Whitehouse tour. Fortunately, absolutely nothing happened to the democracy and it proceeded on its course. What could actually erode the democracy is nation giving up on free speech. That'd be a real sign of nation in severe distress. > I don't listen to your news…

I can't believe this needs to be said, but the fact it failed doesn't mean the danger wasn't real. Some members of the mob were actively looking to kill the people who were 2nd and 3rd in line for the presidency. Let's not pretend that there was zero danger to democracy.

I think you should read this blog (popular on HN), he explains it in a historical context better than I could. Basically this type of thing happened a lot in ancient democracies and even then it often seemed silly and harmless, until it wasn't.

https://acoup.blog/2021/01/15/miscellanea-insurrections-anci...

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#513

Post by ganoushoreilly » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #441

trident5000 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the secret service made the call to take the president into a bunker because it never happened. Just wanted a little adventure that day.

Whoever made decision to move him into the bunker doesn’t change the fact that the protesters did not go past the gates or otherwise do anything which was unusual from decades of protests – which happen all of the time in DC. You are clearly desperate to portray a false equivalence but that simply doesn’t fit the facts.

So what about rioters burning the entrance and exit to Ted Wheelers home in Portland (which he wasn't even present at)? Would you agree the actions there were also attempts at murder and destruction of property of a duly elected official?

To act like the past year has had nothing in comparison to insanity .. is well insane. Theses Capital idiots are just that Idiots and they'll see time in court. What's not clear is why all of a sudden people that were supportive of aggravated protest to prove a point all of a sudden are surprised when the other side used the same tactics.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#514

Post by ABeeSea » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #358

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

Can you articulate a plausible (does not rely on significant speculation or hypotheticals) series of events at the Capitol incident that could have resulted in democracy being legitimately lost in America? I am unable to come up with one.

Enough democratic members of congress are killed that the election doesn’t become certified. The remaining members elect a new republican speaker of the house. The constitution declares that if no winner to the Presidential election is declared the speaker of the house becomes President on Jan 20th. The speaker of the house doesn’t have to be a member of congress so the remaining republicans could have voted Trump speaker, keeping him in office another 4 years.

And that is how democracy dies in America.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#515

Post by notahacker » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #318

notahacker wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see why a future collapse into tyranny of a country in Europe would have to involve a revival of the symbols of any particular defeated regime It wouldn't have to . But having watched Hitler sell the idea that Germany was being unjustly punished for Jewish lies a generation earlier, they drew the conclusion that [West] Germany was quite likely to see would-be tyrants rallying around a Lost Cause narrative a…

That's an interesting fact that puts the issue into a light I hadn't considered. Fortunately, the literal "lost cause" language of the American Civil War has already run its course, caused its damage (up to and including a presidential assassination), and the country has survived. Would banning confederate symbols have prevented the assassination of Lincoln? Probably not, to be honest. I wonder if it would have preve…

I don't see it preventing Lincoln's assassination, no. Jim Crow laws? Possibly not, and there were better ways of preventing them. But we wouldn't be seeing angry mobs fighting over statues today if they'd never been put up and we wouldn't have seen a mass membership second Klan if the first one hadn't been ruled constitutionally protected shortly after it had been forced to disband

The post Civil War US is an experiment in taking the precise opposite stance to postwar Germany: positively encouraging the losing side to romanticise their cause so long as their revisionist history downplays the slavery bit. Some northerner presidents even paid tribute to General Lee. I think it's difficult to argue reconciliation and race relations have been helped the resulting counter narrative that it was actually a pretty noble thing to defend their way of life against other states who only pretended to be concerned about negroes though.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#516

Post by ganoushoreilly » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:35 AM UTC

compiler-guy wrote: post #374

trident5000 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of rednecks who broke into a building after a protest event ended, stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside, and left hours after being told to do so with no shots fired at security. Id hardly call that much of an insurrection attempt. "but they had zip ties" there has never been a gov overthrow fought by some guy who brought zip ties.

They smeared feces, stole laptops, broke windows, killed a police officer and got one of their own killed. People with bullhorns directed their fellows to the next target. It was an insurrection attempt by incompetents and LARPers, but absolutely an insurrection attempt.

Like every single riot over the past year? How do you justify the destruction, assaults, murders, deaths, and overall chaos there? Hold these assholes accountable 100%.. but let's also stop pretending people who want to hold the left accountable as well aren't crazy.. and maybe see it as just as damning.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#517

Post by slg » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #480

slg wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe this needs to be said, but the fact it failed doesn't mean the danger wasn't real. Some members of the mob were actively looking to kill the people who were 2nd and 3rd in line for the presidency. Let's not pretend that there was zero danger to democracy.

> I can't believe this needs to be said, but the fact it failed doesn't mean the danger wasn't real. The danger is unreal not because it failed, but because it was obviously going to fail. We're talking about a bunch of delusional LARPers. If some foreign intelligence unit tries and fails to overthrow your country's government, that's insurrection. If it's the doofus who stole the podium or the guy with face paint an…

>The danger is unreal not because it failed, but because it was obviously going to fail. We're talking about a bunch of delusional LARPers. If some foreign intelligence unit tries and fails to overthrow your country's government, that's insurrection. If it's the doofus who stole the podium or the guy with face paint and a horned fur hat, not so much.

What are you basing the obviousness of the failure on? The mob was seemingly a few dozen feet away from numerous politicians with the only thigs between them being a barricaded door and seemingly less than a half dozen security people.

>There were murderers and arsonists at BLM riots as well; that doesn't impugn the legitimate protesters. Similarly, these few actual insurrectionists don't make the MAGA trespassers, rioters, even murderers into insurrectionists.

How many murders were committed by the millions of BLM protester in the dozens of cities they protested in over the months they protested? Because these thousands of people in DC were able to murder one and get multiple of their own killed? The violence rate of the two isn't comparable.

>There is a danger to our democracy in that a sitting president undermining democracy by spreading lies about election fraud. More generally, the media and tech companies are deliberately cultivating division and mistrust among the American people. These are real, credible dangers to democracy. The MAGA LARPers were not a credible threat to our democracy.

What happened on 1/6 was a direct result of those first two. This is part of the danger to democracy manifesting itself.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#518

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:38 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

> No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to give up on freedom because of TV picture and a bunch of talking heads on TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" (nothing of the sort happened of course)

This is completely off-base and devalues the rest of your comment.

The capitol was stormed which delayed the process for the peaceful transfer of power, and people on here are still OK with it because of their politics. This is wrong. Do not accept this response. We will not accept it.

Anybody who doesn't view this as a direct attack on our way of life is just wrong - they don't want to believe, because your politics.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#519

Post by alsetmusic » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #410

compiler-guy wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They smeared feces, stole laptops, broke windows, killed a police officer and got one of their own killed. People with bullhorns directed their fellows to the next target. It was an insurrection attempt by incompetents and LARPers, but absolutely an insurrection attempt.

> smeared feces, stole laptops > absolutely an insurrection attempt. You must have a really low bar for "insurrection". If stealing a laptop is "insurrection", by that bar looting a Target - which we witnessed the whole 2020 - would be a Galactic War or something.

> by that bar looting a Target - which we witnessed the whole 2020

You’re exaggerating and it’s deliberate, which revels the intent of your argument is dishonest.

Well-documented events in the summer of 2020 kicked off unrest. There was no mass-looting before that.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#520

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #460

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

Hang on: so because they failed at killing elected officials, there's nothing to worry about? You can tell us for certain that had one of the officers not lead them away from Pence he would've been safe? Based on...? Should we let the Michigan militia that was going to murder the governor off, since they just talked about it but didn't actually do it... Because they were caught.

Based on his politics - he tacitly supports the politics of those, so he turns a blind eye, like many in the tech community and on here (a significant minority.) It's sad, but not surprising given the population of this site.

Anybody who supports democracy should be against everything that Trump has said and done as well as the riots and those who support it. Those are the most direct attacks on our way of life since the civil war. But they won't because Trump does what they like - it's bad faith, and always has been. It's not about free speech and never has been. Just more projection and attacks from the typical actors.