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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#391

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

Can you articulate a plausible (does not rely on significant speculation or hypotheticals) series of events at the Capitol incident that could have resulted in democracy being legitimately lost in America? I am unable to come up with one.

This is an obviously impossible burden to load on someone, and I think you know that. If democracy is legitimately lost in America, it will happen via a series of events that we today cannot conceive of.

It is more useful to think events like the Capitol incident as causing long-lasting damage to democracy, and there is a non-negligible possibility that societal schisms will widen, as opposed to heal. What that will look like in the future is anybody's guess.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside" This is a lie.

The point being they didnt cause some stand off or try to burn the place down. They woddled in there, went places they shouldnt have been, and left. Im not defending actions but pointing out the hyperbole.

We’re just gonna pretend they didn’t beat a cop to death on the way in, are we?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#393

"In 2010, DNA sequencing company Complete Genomics said that "an interruption of services by Amazon Web Services, on whom we rely to deliver finished genomic data to our customers, would result in our customers not receiving their data on time." Gaming company Zynga warned about how its AWS foundation could quickly vanish when it filed the prospectus for its initial public offering in 2011. "AWS may terminate the agr…

I led cloud transformations at a Fortune 500 and we did make sure to look over contracts and have business agreements in place. YMMV though as we had some weight behind our needs as a government contract would. If you just sign up with a credit card I’m sure it’s different as mentioned however, a lot has changed since 2010. They were warned repeatedly and ignored it.

Did you have any "disaster recovery" plans in place, what you would do if the cloud failed.

I think looking at this issue with the example of "Parler" may be missing the point. The issue worth debating is surely not whether Amazon made the right decision. Of course they did. The issue worth discussing is who gets to make this decision in light of what the decision implies. Due to how much businesses are choosing[1] to rely on companies like Google and Amazon as service providers, these "tech" companies can easily kill other businesses by denying service, without violating any laws in the process.

These "tech" company middlemen are generally not treated like utilities under existing laws but the question is whether they are being treated as such by customers, the public.

1. Perhaps not so much consciously choosing as being persuaded by tech company salespeople and, IMHO, biased "media coverage" (=hype).

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#394
post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

I agree with almost everything you say except...

> a bunch of talking heads on TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" (nothing of the sort happened of course)

It didn't succeed, and in retrospect, it didn't look very effective. Many (but by no means all) of the participants were clowns.

However, it was absolutely an attempt. People died in an attempt to storm a seat of government and install a different regime. People were chanting "hang Mike Pence", constructed an actual gallows, and then went looking for him. And they did this, let's reiterate, in an attempt to overturn the election. The people trying to track him down had specific objectives in mind (however realistic or otherwise they may have been) and they weren't "giving him a bouquet of flowers and a hearty thank you for performing his entirely ceremonial role in the election process".

We can argue about how incompetent the insurrection was (clearly, very), and how close it came to achieving any of its objectives (still quite unclear). And we can certainly argue about whether a single failed insurrection attempt justifies the response; I think a very valid case can be made for the "no" argument. But words have meaning, and the word "insurrection" means precisely this.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#395

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

> The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded.

Anyone who has studied American history knows that there's been a fairly recent revisionist movement to convince everyone that our republic is actually a democracy. The truth is that this country has always been a republic. The founders of our government hated tyrannical democracy.

Hamilton: "It has been observed by an honorable gentleman, that a pure democracy, if it were practicable, would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved, that no position in politics is more false than this. The ancient democracies, in which the people themselves deliberated, never possessed one feature of good government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."

John Adams: "Democracy, will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes, and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure and every one of these will soon mold itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues, and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit, and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few."

Adams again: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

Ben Rush: "A simple democracy is the devil's own government."

Madison: "Where a majority are united by a common sentiment, and have an opportunity, the rights of the minor party become insecure."

Madison again: "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

I could go on and on.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the left has fully endorsed this. Trump lost because turnout was high -- because the left shoehorned executive actions through elections commissions and governors under the guise of COVID. They increased turnout by mailing everyone a ballot. The left fired up their base and increased turnout by promising direct checks into voters bank accounts. They increased turnout by promising free healthcare. The left wants to double down and provide citizenship to 11 million illegal aliens, forever increasing their voter base. And finally, most brazenly, they want to abolish the electoral college to ensure that their coastal majorities can never be overridden.

So no, democracy isn't dying in the US. We're more democratic than we've ever been, and there's no sign of it stopping.

It's the republic that's in danger.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#396
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A poor execution does not make it less seditious. The goal was to undermine or intimidate a democratic process entwined with the leadership of our nation. I would argue that's pretty clearly insurrection.

Like when the white house was stormed over the summer and the pres went into a bunker? Was that an attempted overthrow?

No, because that “storming” only happened in your imagination. The protests were hundreds of feet away and the violence started when the police tried to clear the public park for Trump to have a photo op. If you look at the footage from the journalists who were assaulted, there was nothing like a risk to the White House perimeter:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/channel-7-journalists...

If the Trump supporters had similarly stayed outside of the gates, nobody would even remember the protest as more than a bit of trivia.

(Edit: I added “storming” to the first sentence to avoid any confusion about whether I was referring to the well-publicized bunker trip)

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#397
post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

> them there was an "insurrection" (nothing of the sort happened of course)

Even if this was an insurrection, I don't see how that means you need to clamp down on freedom of speech.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#398

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

Did he say storm the capital?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty baffling how people all of a sudden expect Fortune 500 companies to not act "politically correct" when bad actors are breaking their TOSes. Was there ever a medium backed by a large corporation where you could post calls to violence against politicians without getting booted off?

Twitter, Facebook, Youtube come to mind. The two that immediately come to mind would be Kathy Griffin holding Trump's severed head and Eminem shooting a Trump look-a-like. Neither were deplatformed for these graphic depictions / calls to violence, and one even reposted the offensive media in November.

Kathy Griffin's career still hasn't recovered and this was imagery not a call to action. I find it funny when Griffin gets brought up as if she wasn't "cancelled." Its an example of even treatment not hypocrisy.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#400

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

Can you articulate a plausible (does not rely on significant speculation or hypotheticals) series of events at the Capitol incident that could have resulted in democracy being legitimately lost in America? I am unable to come up with one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_189...

No hypotheticals - this one actually happened, and the resulting undemocratic government was seen as legitimate and retained power. (To be clear, democracy once lost can be regained, but it was unambiguously lost.)

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