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Toxic positivity does more harm than good

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Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#121

Post by lostlogin »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #105
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Same for me. I hate the celebratory management emails after crunch time. They feel insulting to me. I expect management to help during the project and not celebrating once everything is done. That while not having fixed obvious problems during the project. My partner is the other way. She loves and needs praise. The more the better. Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a sur…

What did the plaque say? This is amazing.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#122

Post by vbezhenar »

Bayart wrote: post #96
hnarn wrote: post #80

I vastly prefer honest negativity over dishonest positivity. An example of this is the behavior of service personnel in the US compared to my native country, every time I go there I almost want to tell them to tone down the niceness, but of course there's no point because I realize I'm the odd one out. Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd m…

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

I thought that was about Russians, not Europeans in general. In Russia it's considered a mental illness to smile without a good reason.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#123

Post by NoSorryCannot »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #90
fastball wrote: post #2

I think Toxic Positivity is a bit of a misnomer, I'd probably call it "False Positivity". It's not some subset of real positivity that is toxic, it's just... not actual positivity. It's an act.

No, there is toxic positivity, but I don't think this article is talking about it. I'll give you an example. "Don't worry, it'll get better." People genuinely believe that and for many things, it's true. For someone with a chronic and severe mental illness with no known cure? We're sick of hearing it. There is no better for me. I'll never be completely free of suicidal thoughts or medication side-effects. I will neve…

Speaking as someone with mental health issues and as someone who has been the shoulder for others who are the same, no, saying it'll get better doesn't help because almost nothing that could be said will.

But being lead in circles of doom talk and complaining by someone who is inconsolable naturally leads to vacuous sayings like it is what it is, it's not as bad as it seems, or count your blessings, only because I have to say something in reply despite not having any answers.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#124

Post by 29athrowaway »

Psychological safety is being able to speak your mind without negative repercusions. Toxic positivity is not psychological safety.

Personally, I think psychological safety leads to another phenomenon: groupthink. By emphasizing harmony over everything else, groups suffering from groupthink apply self-censorship, silence is seen as agreement, and the ability to make rational decisions is lost. Not only that, but the group develops a strong identity and anyone who doesn't agree is seen as disloyal.

For a software engineering team, groupthink usually means becoming a death march towards failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#125

Post by lallysingh »

Bayart wrote: post #96
hnarn wrote: post #80

I vastly prefer honest negativity over dishonest positivity. An example of this is the behavior of service personnel in the US compared to my native country, every time I go there I almost want to tell them to tone down the niceness, but of course there's no point because I realize I'm the odd one out. Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd m…

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

How does a European in Canada feel?

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#126

Post by angelbar »

5tefan wrote: post #103
Puts wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me think about how different it is to motivate people to exercise. Some people seams to need a full on military boot camp to get exercise done, and some people just totally shuts down when someone tells them what to do. When it comes to management, we don't only need to understand that different people need different types of motivation, but also that something that is essential to motivate some can be dire…

Very true. Not easy to deal with humans.

Welcome Zukerberg...

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#127

Post by _qulr »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #6
fastball wrote: post #2

I think Toxic Positivity is a bit of a misnomer, I'd probably call it "False Positivity". It's not some subset of real positivity that is toxic, it's just... not actual positivity. It's an act.

The author's point seems to be that it is toxic to a person to (try to) exist in permanent state of positivity. I can get behind that notion. I've had friends who were chronically positive. It gelded our friendship because they hoarded all the negative stuff in their life.

> The author's point seems to be that it is toxic to a person to (try to) exist in permanent state of positivity.

Yes. The article started out with the psychologist explaining how the client was looking for fake doctor's notes just to avoid going to work because the client didn't feel "totally positive" that day. That's toxic positivity, the feeling that you can't outwardly display anything less than complete cheerfulness, that you have to bottle up any problem inside and not let it out.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#128

Post by im_down_w_otp »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

I tend to see "toxic positivity" as an attempt to gaslight people, but with the presumption of good intentions, and that presumption of good intentions somehow washing away the deleterious effects of gaslighting people. Somewhat unsurprisingly it turns out it's the gaslighting that's the problem, not entirely the motivation for engaging in it. My experience has been that high-performing people gravitate toward being motivated by engagement with reality, not by suspending disbelief to engage in contrivance or farce. This is true on the other side of it as well. They won't tolerate "toxic negativity" either, which is just another form of gaslighting in an attempt to motivate by way manufactured crisis or exigency.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#129

Post by megous »

clairity wrote: post #111
SkyPuncher wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it" I say this to my team a lot, even though they're operating as "expected" levels for my company. The reality is there are a lot of teams and a lot of companies that simply do not expect much from their teams. We do. I want to remind the team that they are doing good work. When people have confidence they're doing a good job, they're more likely to continue to do a good job.

no one wants fake praise, but rather real, genuine praise only. some folks will convince themselves the fake praise is genuine, but mostly, everyone can tell in their heart of hearts which is which. you're not really fooling most folks most of the time. give real praise only when it's deserved. support and compassion, however, should always be readily at hand.

Depends. Your output may feel great to someone else, but you may not feel excited about it personally. (and there may be no conflict, or fakery of praise in it) Perhaps based on how perfectionist you are, or based on what you like about the work. You might be excited/motivated by different aspects of your work than your manager.

To me it would come down to whether I think other person is praising my work just to get more of it done just for the praise (I'd have negative reaction), or whether he just likes it that much personally (neutral to mildly positive reaction).

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#130

Post by hnarn »

vbezhenar wrote: post #122
Bayart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

I thought that was about Russians, not Europeans in general. In Russia it's considered a mental illness to smile without a good reason.

While that's definitely a Russian "thing" it's by no means confined to Russia.
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