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Toxic positivity does more harm than good

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Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#61

Post by 458aperta »

andreygrehov wrote: post #51

There are at least two things that annoy the hell out of me: 1 Fake positivity 2 Co-workers that are "happy" to work during PTOs The first one is described in the article. The second one is somewhat related to the first one or could even be the result of fake positivity. Working during a paid time off (PTO) is terrible for culture – makes your co-workers feel guilty if they won't spend a few hours at work during thei…

You pretty much described Vancouver, BC. One of the lowest average salary in North America, expensive housing, and normalized exploitation of labor. Fake positivity is just the cultural fact of life here and I think it hurts productivity.

We all know that because housing is so scarce, having a job or not can mean you have a roof over your heads or not. It's really disgusting the way they treat workers here. So of course there is going to be a Stockholm syndrome effect here.

Won't pay the market price but want the best. From what I've heard from insiders, they all do "surveys" with each other to fix wages since the 2000 dot come bubble collapse. The Vancouver Model is essentially: underpay your workers, demand the best and increase margins.

Then they wonder why we can't be like Silicon Valley. Most startups here get acquired by pre-primary market and very few ever IPO thus rendering stock options worthless.

It's no wonder that there is a massive brain drain going on and that startups here consist mostly of immigrant workers. I'm sure in some scale the exact same thing is taking place in SV but at least Indian engineers are making far more than what they would here in the Florida of Canada.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#62

Post by Puts »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

This made me think about how different it is to motivate people to exercise. Some people seams to need a full on military boot camp to get exercise done, and some people just totally shuts down when someone tells them what to do. When it comes to management, we don't only need to understand that different people need different types of motivation, but also that something that is essential to motivate some can be directly contra productive and harmful to others motivation.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#65

Post by Der_Einzige »

croissants wrote: post #35
haunter wrote: post #11

Prime example is the current Cosmo row about putting obese models on cover ("This is healthy") while Covid is rampaging in the US and killing obese people https://www.rt.com/news/511466-cosmo-fat-healthy-covid-cover...

I think the article touches on a distinction between these things: > Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into upbeat intolerance by implying that it’s not OK to want to work on tummy folds or laugh lines. I read the Cosmo cover as suggesting "it's OK to not want to change your body", toxic positivity would be "it's not OK to want to change your body". In that case, tox…

I claim "it's OK to not want to change your body" is itself toxic positivity.

Yes, it's "okay" in that you should not experience body or fat-shaming for being obese. No, it's not "okay" in that you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease - and your quality of life is really terrible in comparison to people who are not obese. It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this level of disregard for out health.

I think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality out of people who for whom their pain is partially or entirely self-inflicted.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#66

Post by rimiform »

op03 wrote: post #7
fastball wrote: post #2

I think Toxic Positivity is a bit of a misnomer, I'd probably call it "False Positivity". It's not some subset of real positivity that is toxic, it's just... not actual positivity. It's an act.

Next up True Negativity or Positive Toxicity. Take your pick. “Our language is an imperfect instrument created by ancient and ignorant men. It is an animistic language that invites us to talk about stability and constants, about similarities and normal and kinds, about magical transformations, quick cures, simple problems, and final solutions. Yet the world we try to symbolize with this language is a world of process…

Johnson sounds like he just finished reading Deleuze and Guattari.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#67

Post by Trasmatta »

jcelerier wrote: post #26
Trasmatta wrote: post #5

This has kind of been a problem at my workplace. Everything from the company's marketing material to its recruiting practices exudes an almost overwhelming amount of positivity. They put a huge emphasis on hiring "the nicest people in the world". Disagreements or arguments at the company are almost non-existent, because everyone tries their hardest to be positive and nice at all times. Every other sentence in Slack e…

> Everything from the company's marketing material to its recruiting practices exudes an almost overwhelming amount of positivity. I don't know if it's because I'm french but that kind of thing makes me throw up in my mouth and is a super big turn-off. Some things sucks, it's fine, accept it and move on or try to make them better through actions. Words don't make things better.

I don't have any hard evidence for this, but it seems to me that this fake positivity is a lot more prevalent in the US than in Europe

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#68

Post by lbblack »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

I think one of the most important things for a person in a leadership role to understand, is how to understand other people by confidently understanding yourself. If you can't offer me encouraging advice and honest critique - without being afraid of hurting my personal feelings, I'd be left without a clear direction. Otherwise, you'd be easily able to recreate a positive growth cycle in your team (e.g. significant boosts in morale, productivity, communication, etc.)

False positive emotions are usually the result of someone denying the acceptance of truth. What ever that truth may be.

This is probably going to sound super corny but YMMV. The psychological impacts of denial are devastating. The psychological impacts of love, acceptance and forgiveness are limitlessly fruitful.

I see a lot of HN posts recently on the existence of these superhuman developers with god-like abilities or productivity. Everybody on this planet is human, yet we interact with others intellect or knowledge as if it were a static state. It's not. Every human mind is quite literally, a quantum computer. Anyone can grow their intellect or wisdom or maturity, it just takes the proper push in the right direction and some guts.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#69

Post by sigstoat »

lrossi wrote: post #14

The article is mentioning Instagram as an amplifier of this need to fake being happy. But I think Facebook is responsible for it as well. I was once talking to a colleague who was showing me some old vacation pictures. Some tropical area. I commented that they were looking amazing. He said that actually there was a pile of garbage next to them, but they only put the good looking photos on Facebook. Everybody wants to…

> He said that actually there was a pile of garbage next to them, but they only put the good looking photos on Facebook.

when your friends used a slide projector to show you their vacation photos, they left the bad slides out of the projector.

i'm on board with facebook being a problem, but it's in more subtle ways than folks not showing you their bad photos.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#70

Post by qwantim1 »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

The story though is about toxic positivity affecting the person putting a lot of pressure on themselves. It led to success but the concern was of the excessive stress and taking a day off for mental health break “sick day” to make up for it.

If you personally don’t like positivity which isn’t fake, then it might be good to dig into that. I have a hard time with fake positivity but genuine positivity is usually acceptable.

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