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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#291

Post by knieveltech »

euroclydon wrote: post #133
knieveltech wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've started making vacation time a major part of the negotiation when taking a new position and in all instances I've brought it up during the interview process the interviewer acted alarmed. Even with my current position with a really cool small web shop they ended up interviewing me a 2nd time before offering the position. The key topic of conversation during the 2nd interview was basically the CEO trying to figur…

It's easy to keep salary info private, not so with vacation time.

Now there's a piece of subtlety that wouldn't have occurred to me without having it pointed out by another. I guess I've got a bit of a blind spot since I don't care much about what other people in the company are getting compensation-wise.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#292

Post by marshray »

drblast wrote: post #218
bartonfink wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American corporate culture seems to live by the motto "Don't think - measure!"

I've witnessed this. Counterintuitively, I think it's a side-effect of not understanding math. To those without a good understanding of statistics, numbers and graphs are a mystical, magical way to easily improve just about anything.

It's also a way to avoid personal responsibility and human judgment.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#293

Post by m0nastic »

marcinw wrote: post #2

How many of you treat conferences as mini-vacations? I find that in my field, going to a couple conferences throughout the year makes up for a couple days of vacation, as long as I don't have any work on my plate. Also, I find that being single and having friends that (on the majority), make less than I do, makes it difficult to plan trips to places you'd have to fly/rent a hotel for. Trips consist of ten friends car…

I definitely do that.

I have a lot of vacation days through work (6 weeks this year), but have pretty much no desire to go on vacations. I end up using my vacation days to go to Security conferences.

I've found, at least with my favorite conferences (CanSecWest, Shmoocon), that they refill my "info-sec excitement meter" for a good four months before I start considering quitting and going to work in a comic book store.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#294

Post by marshray »

skittles wrote: post #22

I work for a company that doesn't have expiring vacation days. They are payed out at 100% at your current salary the day you quit, get fired, or retire. We have a large amount of employees that use this as an additional retirement account. I can't imagine banking all my vacation time!

Do you have that in writing? I wonder if they think they could simply discontinue that policy.

Actually, I worked a a place that allowed you to "sell back" your vacation time as actual hours worked. They could be made to count for time-and-a-half overtime.

If you did that on a week that also had a company holiday, you'd kind of get into this triple-bonus-category. It was great until some guy sort of abused it and sold back a few weeks while also working a bunch of overtime over a two-holiday pay period.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#295

Post by camiller »

hmottestad wrote: post #16
leftnode wrote: post #9

There is a good article from another software developer around here who told his boss he was taking a 3 month vacation. He made the point the business needed him more than he needed it; he was a competent developer and could easily get work, didn't have any living/large financial dependencies. At first I thought it was absurd, but the more I thought about it, he was absolutely correct. Take a long vacation some time.…

As a student I took time off from class and enjoyed 2 weeks skiing is switzerland, then another 2 weeks in the sun in Uruguay. All while it was -20C at home in Norway. I usually end up working during my normal vacations though, so last summer I had 2 weeks off. One of the perks I would probably want in my contract when I start working is the ability to take up to 4 weeks of unpaid leave and being able to take all my…

The sick days part varies by employer. At a previous employer it was 10 sick days in addition to your vacation days, and unused sick days accumulated from one year to the next. When my son was born 8 week early with my wife in the hospital 2.5 weeks before that, I had accumulated enough sick time that I could take 11 weeks off to spend at the hospital (Caleb spent 25 days in neonatal intensive care) and at home after he was released.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#296

Post by r00fus »

richcollins wrote: post #232
wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

Or you could be a contract developer in the US, make 2x US employee salary and take vacation whenever you don't have an active project (months if you want).

You can do similar in Europe as well. At least when I was there, many of my colleagues at Schneider Electric were contractors making decent money (even for US rates).

Actually being a contractor in a country with good social safety net is even better... as you're employment isn't responsible for healthcare benefits* , your options are much better.

* France has a public/private deal where you (or your employer) can pay extra for better service, but the baseline social safety net is quite ample.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#297

Post by Mz »

chrisaycock wrote: post #290
Mz wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. I get a little tired of hearing this. Study after study after study indicates that diet and lifestyle play a major role in all major deadly diseases. I was an American military wife for a couple of decades. Even after my divorce, I was entitled to free medical care at tax-payer…

Why are you bringing up lifestyle? The discussion is insurance . And my point is that, beyond the elderly, most citizens don't qualify for any of America's public insurance plans (I certainly don't): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_...

Why are you bringing up lifestyle? The discussion is insurance.

Insurance does nothing to really insure your health. It is intended to help protect your wallet. A better way to protect your health is to take care of yourself so you are healthy. The discussion in the US about "the healthcare crisis" always focuses on the financial piece of it. There are differences between Europe and the US that impact health having nothing to do with who pays the medical bills: Europe is generally more pedestrian-friendly, there is a different food culture and so on. All of those things impact health. I get tired of seeing "health insurance" held up as a) the only meaningful difference in health costs between the US and Europe and b) the only important part of "how to control medical costs" in the US debate on health care.

That's why I bring it up: Because to me the two things are related.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#298

Post by Eternal »

camiller wrote: post #280
ronaldj wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US advertised salaries don't include personal income tax (local and federal), insurance, social security, medicare, 401k, and any other fees you might incur. At the top of your paycheck you would see your 'advertised' earnings for that period and then at the bottom you have your take home net pay. Depending on your location, you loose around 20% of your 'advertised' pay to taxes and other mandatory things. If…

Why would it include personal income tax? Your tax situation could be different than mine (single vs. married, deductions AKA children, etc.) it would be impossible for the employer to know what you personal income tax is going to be. Insurance? if your spouse has access to a better insurance policy you might opt not to participate in your employers plan so why would they "include" that? Social security and medicare…

yes, but read the question above.

In Europe some of those things are paid through taxes and some are not. To make a reasonable comparison you need to know what's included each system and how the fees are arranged.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#299

Post by r00fus »

kgermino wrote: post #58
chrismealy wrote: post #15

Nobody has mentioned the obvious: weak unions.

I'm not sure how much that has to do with it. I live in Chicago, no one around here would accuse the unions of being weak, but vacation time here is no different than in the south. Unless you mean on a national level (unions pushing for federal reform and what-not) than yes the unions here are weaker, but the U.S. Also tends to be more opposed to national regulations than Europe as well.

Considering most vacation law is set at the national level, yes, weak union power at the national level results in the situation we have here.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#300

Post by camiller »

lurker20 wrote: post #93
wccrawford wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, that's the first I've ever heard of that. That would not be acceptable for me. I think I'll be asking for more vacation time in future contracts, too. I managed to secure extra in the first year of my current contract because I had a need (planned trip) but in the future, I'm just going to require more. Of course, benefits and pay are interchangeable, so I might just request the ability to take unpaid vacatio…

Sort of. The difference is that some benefits are linked to length-of-service or continuity-of-service, so an unpaid vacation in the USA can scuttle your health insurance, equity vest, 401(k) match, etc.

Bridge-of-service. I've seen someone leave a company (on good terms) come back two years later and the company gave the bridge-of-service with regards to 401(k), vacation, etc. He was really good though and the company really wanted him back.
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