Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#251

Post by yxhuvud » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

gst wrote: post #119

[deleted] wrote: post #74

[deleted]

It's not the input (= work) that counts, but the output (results) that you get. A year has 52 weeks. If I take 5 weeks of vacation per year that's 10% of the time that I have. So I will be 10% less productive (if I ignore increased productivity after vacations). For me that's a reasonable trade-off. I don't live to work, but I work to live. In addition, I suggest that you look at the per capita GDP of different count…

Wow, that table has jumped around somewhat the last couple of years.

The dollar is now at about 6.30SEK/$.

At the top in 08, it was at around 11. That makes for a pretty big change considering the GDP's bounced a lot less.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#252

Post by thomasgerbe » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:44 PM UTC

macrael wrote: post #185

I've found this is something that really surprises Europeans. But, once, when I was comparing notes with some travelers in a hostel in New Zealand, we asked a South Korean among us for his perspective. He said that he and everyone he knows gets maybe 2 days paid vacation a year. They work most weekends and get maybe 1 holiday. He said if you want to travel, you have to quit your job to do it, with no guarantee you wi…

This is pretty common. A lot of places in Chinatown in Toronto are open on holidays. My parents (who are Asian) also don't take vacation unless it's a federal holiday.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#253

Post by samlevine » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:44 PM UTC

Does anyone else here prefer to have shorter vacations and higher pay? I've taken a few vacations in my life and they've tended to be less fun than working (at least after the first 3 days. Before that it's awesome).

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#254

Post by billswift » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:45 PM UTC

Vivtek wrote: post #100

bartonfink wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American corporate culture seems to live by the motto "Don't think - measure!"

Well, in general, I'm in favor of measuring - "thinking" is often a buzzword that means jumping on whichever fad bandwagon you just saw in the airline magazine. It's picking what to measure where some thought is required.

There is also the problem that with an emphasis on "measurement" there comes an associated emphasis on values that are easy to measure. The current example is the difficulty of measuring programmer productivity, especially the weaknesses of LOC as a metric. The classic example of this is the rule of the management dweebs in the Defense Department during the Vietnam war and the near collapse of small unit cohesion and esprit de corps during that time.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#255

Post by Mz » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:46 PM UTC

chrisaycock wrote: post #186

mapgrep wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason American workers say they can barely survive on $60k a year is that they pay out of pocket for things German workers can take for granted: * Comfortable retirement - 401k contributions. Yes America has social security but it's not a ton of money compared to other national pensions and if you're young you worry about it not being around at all by the time you need it. * Unemployment - You should probably ha…

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens.

I get a little tired of hearing this. Study after study after study indicates that diet and lifestyle play a major role in all major deadly diseases. I was an American military wife for a couple of decades. Even after my divorce, I was entitled to free medical care at tax-payer expense. I did nothing to try to preserve that entitlement* because I was too busy making the dietary and lifestyle changes I needed to make in order to get well when I was told by some specialist that I would never get well. Eat right, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink to excess and all that other boring advice no one wants to hear and you greatly reduce the odds that you will need expensive medical care.

* And I'm saving the American public quite a lot of money because my medical condition is one of the more expensive chronic incurable conditions out there. It annoys me that it's all coming out of my pocket to get well but other folks would happily pay through the nose to help me stay sick and keep me a lifelong legal drug addict. /Rant

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#256

Post by davidw » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:47 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #201

chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

> You guys are doing it again

Comparing apples and oranges, or rather, the ecosystems that produce apple trees vs the right ecosystem for growing oranges?

These discussions just go around and around. I vote that we ban them in favor of people who want to know what it's like in Europe vs the US buying those of us who have spent significant (more than 2 years) on the other side a drink, while they listen to our anecdotes.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#257

Post by lispm » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:48 PM UTC

wonderyak wrote: post #216

lispm wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the more protestant part of Germany, Hamburg. People here get the same vacation (the company I work for has 28 days paid vacation for its employees). The only difference is that we have a few days less public holidays than in the catholic regions.

It really isn't so much the religious aspect of Protestantism but the work ethic associated with early American settlers and the lack of fun they believed in. There is a really wonderful book by Harriet Beecher Stowe which outlines the lives of these people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Town_Folks

The 'protestantischer Arbeitsethos' (protestant work ethic) is originally a concept developed in Germany (propagated to neighbor countries and then to the USA) and still very influential here.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#258

Post by yxhuvud » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:48 PM UTC

latj wrote: post #113

nixy wrote: post #26

I'm a Swedish developer. This year I have 7 weeks of vacation, and I plan to use it all. I normally get the 5 weeks required by law. Last year, I only used 4 of those 5 weeks, so one spilled over to this year. I also got a bonus week of vacation for working a lot of overtime last summer. So that makes 7 weeks.

Hur kan man hitta ett jobb i Sverige? ;) Måste man talar svenska?

No. IT people tend to know more than enough english for english speakers to get along.

It also happen to be a huge lack of IT people on the market at the moment..

The flip side, of course, is that you have to survive our winters. :P

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#259

Post by Confusion » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:51 PM UTC

I work at a (bootstrapped) European startup. In june, one of the founders takes a month of vacation. In july, the other does the same. As an employee, I'm entitled to 5 weeks off. Sick leave does not subtract from that. Every American reader probably thinks we will never make it. European readers would consider insane if we did without that time off. That's how ingrained this vacation business is. And if you ask me, we are happier and more productive than we would be without those vacations.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#260

Post by thomasgerbe » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:52 PM UTC

stefanobernardi wrote: post #34

That's really crazy, but it gives employers the chance to hire and retain the best talents not only with salary wars. I still think that the major problem is that the US is one of the three only nations in the world that does not have paid maternity leave. Absurd.

Actually there are numerous companies in the U.S. that do have maternity leave. I used to work for an agency in NY that generally had less pay but more benefits.