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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#271

Post by beambot »

cdr wrote: post #172
dmm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until January of this year I was making $40,084.00/yr. That means about $2k/month net. I was paying $156/month on rent by living in a small house with two roommates. I drive a 15yo car that is paid off and I live 3km from work so I don't depend on it. You can live on $12k/yr, you just chose not to.

I can't imagine you were living anywhere desirable that you could pay $156/month in rent. People living in high cost of living areas can't reasonably live on $12K/year. Luckily, they mostly get paid a lot better $40K/year because they have to.

Graduate students live on that amount. We are particularly prevalent in high cost of living areas. It can be done, but it might be unpleasant.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#272

Post by camiller »

whakojacko wrote: post #190
nolok wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question to non-french here, does your advertised salary include the employer's tax ? For exemple here in France, on the salary my employer pays, it's divided pretty much like this: 40% employer's taxes, 20% employee's taxes, 40% final amount of money you put in the bank when all is said and done. BUT my negociated salary, the one I signed on, never included employer's taxes, so for a 100€ salary I never discussed 10…

In the US, yes. The various taxes that employers must pay are paid separately, not taken out of their salary. If someone is talking about $60k or whatever, their takehome is $60k-federal income tax - social security tax - medicare tax - state income tax (some states don't have this, but most do)- local income tax (rare). On top of that, you are also likely going to have deductions for health/dental/etc insurance, and…

For FICA (SS/Medicare) the employer pays as much as the employee. The FICA rate is 15.3% of your base pay(there is an upper limit), you pay half and the employer pays half (except for 2011, stimulus package and all, the employee part of the SS part of FICA is reduced). Typically with most large employers the employer pays 70-80% of the medical insurance premiums, varies by company. Same for Dental, long term disability, etc. Typically the employers overall cost is 20-30% of your salary.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#273

Post by speleding »

Allow me to air a dissenting opinion, since everyone here seems to make fun of those poor US workaholics.

I think the low number of vacation days is just a side effect of Americans not having such a strict compartmentalization between "work" and "life". I worked on both sides of the Atlantic and although I settled in Europe now I actually like the US work ethic, the low number of vacation days notwithstanding.

For many Europeans work is something they do to have bread on the table and the "real" life is that part you're not working. For many Americans their work is their life and the free time they have gets intermingled with work (they take the kids to the company barbecue! never heard of that happening in Europe).

But if most of your waking moments are spent doing something which is not your primary objective than you could say the Europeans are the sad ones.

(Side note: I am now in the happy position that I enjoy running my own company, I might feel different if I had a lousy job)

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#274

Post by yxhuvud »

Aloisius wrote: post #147

If the US had the culture of taking off August, it would be far easier to take off 3 weeks since everyone in your company would be doing it. Logistically however I don't really understand how taking August off works in Europe. Where does everyone go? Doesn't it get super crowded?

Most people stay at home or in their summer residence for most of the time.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#275

Post by yxhuvud »

wonderyak wrote: post #140

Very simply, this country was founded by people with the Protestant Work Ethic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic and it has become a part of our national identity.

I do not think it is that, since the parts europe that is protestantic have more vacation than the catholic parts, in average.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#276

Post by JonnieCache »

mcantelon wrote: post #183

"Century of the Self" is a great documentary on how the American population has been socially engineered by corporations.

This description makes these docs sound like they come from the conspiratorial wing of filmmaking. (no insult implied mcantelon.)

However, they are in fact some of the most important pieces of film I have ever watched, and Adam Curtis is one of the greatest documentary makers ever.

I encourage you to watch all these, then go and watch all his other works, starting with the Power of Nightmares.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#277

Post by camiller »

Maakuth wrote: post #235
OstiaAntica wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicaid provides a health insurance safety net for tens of millions of working and poor Americans...in fact there are more Americans in a federal health program (Medicaid, SCHIP, Medicare) than the entire population Germany.

I've heard that Medicare + Medicaid actually cost a bigger part of your national budget than in Europe, yet it ends up creating a weaker coverage health service coverage for only part of your people, compared to covering everyone in most of the European countries. There's differences between countries here obviously, but US healthcare seems to be less efficient than the European systems.

Medical in the US cost more but there is "more" available. If I were at my doctors office right now (3:13 Central time) and he felt I needed a MRI, I could have one before 5:00. I've often heard that in a non-emergency situation there can be weeks of waiting to get an MRI in some European countries. I have also seen a comment from a guy in the UK who had to have his arm re-broken for a cast to be put on because it had already started to heal crooked while waiting several days. A few years ago I spent some time digging through official government reports on healthcare in several (well limited to English speaking) countries and found things like >8 hour wait times for emergency services, >30 day waits (in some places) for some non-emergency services, etc. Yes, we pay more, but the flip side of that is faster access even in non-critical situations. In my case in February, I was at the doctor at 11:00AM on a Friday, MRI at about 1:30PM, and by 4:00PM I was scheduling surgery for Monday for gallbladder removal. I could have probably waited, my discomfort was relatively mild at that point, but I didn't have to.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#278

Post by canadiancreed »

richcollins wrote: post #232
wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

Or you could be a contract developer in the US, make 2x US employee salary and take vacation whenever you don't have an active project (months if you want).

With the only caveat being to get that next contract.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, it is the way to go. You just need the constant stream of work, which is easier said then done.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#279

Post by canadiancreed »

nolok wrote: post #182
wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

Question to non-french here, does your advertised salary include the employer's tax ? For exemple here in France, on the salary my employer pays, it's divided pretty much like this: 40% employer's taxes, 20% employee's taxes, 40% final amount of money you put in the bank when all is said and done. BUT my negociated salary, the one I signed on, never included employer's taxes, so for a 100€ salary I never discussed 10…

I know that salaries in Canada are advertised in what you would make before taxes/CPP/EI, which usually come out to 17-26% less for most mere mortals.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#280

Post by camiller »

ronaldj wrote: post #202
nolok wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question to non-french here, does your advertised salary include the employer's tax ? For exemple here in France, on the salary my employer pays, it's divided pretty much like this: 40% employer's taxes, 20% employee's taxes, 40% final amount of money you put in the bank when all is said and done. BUT my negociated salary, the one I signed on, never included employer's taxes, so for a 100€ salary I never discussed 10…

In the US advertised salaries don't include personal income tax (local and federal), insurance, social security, medicare, 401k, and any other fees you might incur. At the top of your paycheck you would see your 'advertised' earnings for that period and then at the bottom you have your take home net pay. Depending on your location, you loose around 20% of your 'advertised' pay to taxes and other mandatory things. If…

Why would it include personal income tax? Your tax situation could be different than mine (single vs. married, deductions AKA children, etc.) it would be impossible for the employer to know what you personal income tax is going to be. Insurance? if your spouse has access to a better insurance policy you might opt not to participate in your employers plan so why would they "include" that? Social security and medicare AKA FICA? they pay half, you pay half and the rate is easy to find (7.65%, except this year) 401k? well you are paying yourself there, it's still your money.
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