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Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

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Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not everything is a slippery slope From a risk management perspective, this does not seem like a safe assumption to make. The DailyStormer got "canceled" by vendors for not even trying to moderate content that actively promoted violence (among other horrible things). Now Parlor gets "canceled" by vendors for not doing a good enough job trying to moderate content promoting violence. The bar for getting "canceled" is…

Why are you using quotes around the word “canceled” for the Daily Stormer. It was literally a neo-nazi site. Do you think the issues people had with it were somehow contrived, false, or overblown? Why would you even bring that site up tbh? Lol so far the bar is don’t let people plan a violent insurrection on your app.

> Why are you using quotes around the word “canceled” for the Daily Stormer.

I was just trying to emphasize that I was using the term in the more loose colloquial sense and not trying to exactly describe the particular actions of the vendors.

> Do you think the issues people had with it were somehow contrived, false, or overblown?

Wow, seriously I am not sure how you could have managed to get this from my comment. Please do not put words into my mouth.

> Why would you even bring that site up tbh?

It is a broadly known example of a website that was dropped by pretty much all major online services (including even CloudFlare). What happened to Daily Stormer generated some interesting discussion around online service provides denying services (see the CloudFlare blogpost on why it terminated Daily Stormer: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/).

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happens all the time in the banking arena. Banks are frequently used to deny market access to businesses that are undesirable to the federal government but are otherwise legal businesses.

I hadn't thought about it this way. I assume marijuana dispensaries/businesses are one of the examples you're referencing?

Porn type content also tends to have trouble with many services like payment processors. A simple example is paypal doesn't support most porn related content. I also recall a video game company that makes weirder porn (stuff like hypnosis hentai) saying hypnosis is a trigger for some payment processors so they've had to avoid that terminology.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These companies are sucking up to their new democratic overloads so make sure you do not anger them. Taliban have a twitter account, Ex PM of Malasia have openly justified Paris beheading, Iran's supremo calls for Jew genocide, and last but not the least China calls their Uighur detention camps as "reeducation" with zero consequences. So yes plan if you want but cost of executing the plan might be high enough to put…

" Taliban have a twitter account " President Trump came to an agreement with the Taliban, so somebody seems to think they're legitimate. ( https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-taliban-usa-int/... ) " Ex PM of Malasia have openly justified Paris beheading " Which comment Twitter removed. ( https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/a-bigot-without-principl... )

1. Since when Twitter started complying to Trump?

2. Tweet stayed up until French government got involved. Mahatir is still free to post do it again.

What about China and Iran? Last I checked Trump don't like them so why are they up?

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#865
post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Businesses that are not terror cells have nothing to worry about. What is your definition of a terror cell? Do Amazon, Microsoft, and Google qualify as terror cells for competing for billion dollar contracts with the DoD? This is an absurd benchmark with no basis in reality. https://cnbc.com/2019/10/25/microsoft-wins-major-defense-clo...

It's really not, and has never been. A group of people literally organized on Facebook and brought guns to overtake the capitol. It's pretty cut and dry. Again, nobody would've expected Microsoft to support ISIS' tech. Businesses have always pulled away from extremist groups like this, as is their right to do. The "whataboutism" on DoD contracts isn't relevant. If your stance is "Our own government is a terror cell",…

> The "whataboutism" on DoD contracts isn't relevant.

Only if you take a US-centric view. If you take a world-oriented view, the US military-intelligence complex is by far the most destructive terrorist organization in human history, doing things like erasing democracy in Latin America and overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran which was going to take away its oil.

What the MAGA terrorists did for 4 hours to the US Capitol, the US has been doing to the world for more than 50 years.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All companies shutting them down without so much as a hearing in court will probably lead them to build parallel societies.

Imagine a world where you could sue a business because they don't want you as a customer. It sounds crazy.

That's the case for protected classes. I just think it should be expanded.

It shouldn't be that way if media companies weren't coordinating behind the scenes to ban stuff together. But given that it's happening, it's better to have more freedom.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#867
post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

Not to put too fine a point on what you said but since lot of people here are saying, in essence, "Unless you do support storming the Capitol then you have nothing to worry about" I think it's worth highlighting with a concrete example that isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Let's say you own a company with about 100 employees. You have never taken a political stand beyond voting. Now let's imagine that two of those employees say something on their personal social media that is insensitive to some. Someone somewhere is going to figure out where those two people work and show up at your digital doorstep.

If you as the business owner don't respond in a way that people approve of then those same people are going to go to your vendors such as AWS, etc... and demand they drop you as a customer. If those vendors side with those people strongly enough, or are afraid of them enough, then you may get dropped as quickly as Parler was.

Let's be clear on a key distinction here: you're the CEO of a company providing a SaaS product with no relation or affiliation to politics whatsoever, whereas Parler was clearly enabling and encouraging illegal and seditious activity and their being shut down is completely justified. That distinction isn't clear in the minds of a great many people. Especially in today's highly charged political environment.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t run a social network designed to host right wing extremists, and you should be fine.

Parler was not "designed to host right wing extremists", same way 1st amendment was not designed to provide free speech to "right wing extremists". It was designed to provide free speech to everyone. And hypothetical right wing extremists occasionally use it same way they use telephones and supermarkets.

This looks a lot like the gun discussion. Some people believe X is just a tool, other people say because X is used for doing bad things, it should be banned. Technically this is exactly the line separating left from right, I don't think there will be a conclusion or agreement on this.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#869

All I’m going to say is that I’m all for free speech and setting fair rules for everyone to play by (ie regulation), but looking at the examples provided in the buzzfeed articles this is beyond simple free speech. I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform. If Parler doesn’t want to do any content regula…

I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform.

That, itself, is propaganda.

Here's the elephant in the room:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Quote:

Popper's paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

To my eye, that has been happened since 2016 and DJT took office.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember very well as a middle eastern how ISIS was freely allowed to use Twitter, Facebook and Youtube for recruitment and propaganda in 2015 and none of those platforms did anything about it. Also just today this story was on the front page in HN: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/06/technology/myanmar-facebo... So spare us all the "No hate and violence on our platform" BS. Either you go after all hate and violence…

What kind of world are you trying to advocate with comments like these? Just because you soiled the bed in the past you should just keep doing it?

A world where American lives aren't considered more valuable and "hate" and "inciting violence" is taken seriously when the victims aren't just American politicians.
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