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Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#451

Post by sn_master »

himujjal wrote: post #354
zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

exactly. look at whatsapp now for example. from being one of the most privacy friendly faces of the mobile to being portrayed as privacy invader (i know messages are E2EE). but see the effects. things happen slowly. did amazon or big tech do the right thing here? probably yes. did they see that their influence is massive? yes. (they already do know, just stirring up their convictions stronger now) Is there a chance i…

Messages are E2EE, but by default get backed up into your Google/Apple account which are easily accessible by a search warrant, or from a prism backdoor.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#452

Post by unholiness »

epistasis wrote: post #397
Closi wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a specious argument on its face. The First Amendment does not say that private companies are obligated to spend money broadcasting someone else's speech. Hosting and serving isn't free and any private company has the freedom to decide what not to host. I'm in the UK, but the difference is that right now, these private companies control communication. I'm not allowed outside my house and I live alone. I'm no…

If these companies are "shutting you down" for your speech, it's the same sort of speech that would have gotten you shut down in the public square. Have they shut down text messaging, phone calls, group messaging, all the encrypted messaging apps? Do the tech companies control postal mail, letters to the editor, and printing presses? Of course not. You are looking for others to give you a platform to reach a wide aud…

> Normal, political speech is just fine. Incitement to violence, no

Right. Even the Post Office is not required to deliver pipe bombs.

The issue is that right now, that's not the standard. Amazon /hasn't/ taken down sites in the name of political censorship, but it /could/. The implications of that are important, and they're why I find it hard to be satisfied with justifications like "Amazon is a private company, they can do what they want".

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#453

Post by yalogin »

legutierr wrote: post #440
chmod600 wrote: post #425

This is a weird case of private companies getting together and voluntarily enforcing the supremecy of the state. I'm sure it's happened before, but probably not in situations we'd like to emulate. Insurrection is bad, but the possibility of insurrection is good. When any possibility of insurrection is crushed, for everyone now and in the future (not just insurrectionists), that sounds like it won't end well for the p…

It happens all the time in the banking arena. Banks are frequently used to deny market access to businesses that are undesirable to the federal government but are otherwise legal businesses.

This is actually a great analogy. Its all about reducing risk for the overall business.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#455

Post by SiliconMage »

chmod600 wrote: post #425

This is a weird case of private companies getting together and voluntarily enforcing the supremecy of the state. I'm sure it's happened before, but probably not in situations we'd like to emulate. Insurrection is bad, but the possibility of insurrection is good. When any possibility of insurrection is crushed, for everyone now and in the future (not just insurrectionists), that sounds like it won't end well for the p…

You can have any opinion you want so long as it is mine.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#456

Post by vkou »

ekianjo wrote: post #274
brentm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw multiple posts & comments at the end of December with people literally calling for the murder of members of Congress on Jan 6th. I reported them when I noticed. I checked back after the Capitol Riots and the posts were still there. If they had any moderation it was not at all effective even for the most obviously unacceptable content.

People call for murder of the rich on twitter the whole time but nobody cares apparently. Double standards much?

If an armed mob flew in from all over the country with nooses, hoods, and zipties, to invade Richville, CA... And five people died, before it was dispersed by the police, the FBI, and the national guard, I'd expect #eattherich might also get banned from Twitter.

Observe: That's generally the point when political speech crosses the line from 'soap box' to 'bullet box.' [1] Trump and his friends crossed that line on January 6th. #eattherich, Chapo Trap House, etc, has yet to do so.

You're drawing false equivalences.

[1] Despite having lost its case at both the ballot box, and the jury box. [2]

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#457

Post by anigbrowl »

jmull wrote: post #204
Karunamon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mea culpa: I had the completely wrong idea on this post. See down thread. I would delete this comment if I could. Is that why "Hang Mike Pence" was allowed to trend with 14K tweets, and later that same day "Hang Pence" with 55K?[1] I'd wager every penny I own that almost none of those people were banned or sanctioned in any way. [1]: https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1347791913806532609

That argument doesn't hold water. "Hang Mike Pence", as has been noted many times, was trending because people were discussing the videos showing Trump rioters chanting that. People were not banned for using that phrase for the same reason you and I are not going to be banned/flagged for using it here: we aren't calling for violence and murder. edit: previously called this a bad-faith argument, but that's not fair.

as has been noted many times

A big problem on social networks (including right here on HN) is that it's very easy for people to behave disingenuously and ask questions to which they already know the answer.It's a very effective wayt o either spread misinformation or steal the time of people who are concerned about misinformation, because it's much cheaper to repeat a BS allegation than it is to debunk it.

Another problem (more peculiar but not unique to HN) is that calling out such behavior is often regarded as uncivil. To my mind disingenuity is far more uncivil; I prefer a rude truth to a polite lie.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#458

Post by a_band »

trident5000 wrote: post #428
jorblumesea wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the people that end up on Parler have a strong grasp of constitutional law (no offense to anyone that does and uses app). The general people that end up on that app are hardcore trending extremist and you're not going to find intelligent debate on the role of private companies and the government. It's probably closer to propaganda than it is a true social media site.

There are plenty of extremists on Twitter and Facebook. Thats where the double standard is. People organized on twitter when they stormed the white house and the pres went into a bunker as an example. Facebook is accused of much worse in foreign countries currently. The reason Parler was banned is because all these corporations are very aware they are under the anti-trust microscope. This was a favor to the new party…

Absolutely, we all know that Twitter and Facebook have been far greater vehicles for the political unrest that's been growing for the last four years. Parler is a convenient scapegoat.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#459

Post by MartinCron »

Closi wrote: post #396
zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

100% agree - but I think this can only be solved via legislation. Amazon has too much market power if it can shut down another company at the push of a button for something that isn't illegal (even if it's distasteful).

Parler chose to use AWS for their hosting. When you build your company on someone else's platform, you're explicitly giving them that market power.
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