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Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#411

Post by amadeuspagel »

munificent wrote: post #310
mozillalives wrote: post #44

All I’m going to say is that I’m all for free speech and setting fair rules for everyone to play by (ie regulation), but looking at the examples provided in the buzzfeed articles this is beyond simple free speech. I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform. If Parler doesn’t want to do any content regula…

> I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech This is a specious argument on its face. The First Amendment does not say that private companies are obligated to spend money broadcasting someone else's speech. Hosting and serving isn't free and any private company has the freedom to decide what not to host. If an author's content is so toxic that advertisers wo…

> Hosting and serving isn't free

What a pathetic excuse. It's not like Amazon was hosting parler for free.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#412

Post by caleb-allen »

Closi wrote: post #396
zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

100% agree - but I think this can only be solved via legislation. Amazon has too much market power if it can shut down another company at the push of a button for something that isn't illegal (even if it's distasteful).

Amazon is not the only cloud provider. Parler could have just as easily been a customer of Microsoft or Google

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#413

Post by Johnny555 »

Closi wrote: post #396
zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

100% agree - but I think this can only be solved via legislation. Amazon has too much market power if it can shut down another company at the push of a button for something that isn't illegal (even if it's distasteful).

Was the parler content legal? "Amazon Web Services suspended Parler from its web hosting services... citing a letter it had obtained that mentions 98 examples of Parler posts that "encourage and incite violence." Don't forget that Amazon also has legal liability for hosting and distributing illegal content.

Amazon is not a monopoly -- the mitigation for AWS being able to cut off your business is to architect your application such that you can move it to another cloud vendor.

If your content is so toxic that other cloud vendors won't accept you either, then maybe the problem isn't with the cloud vendors.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#414

Post by _nickwhite »

6sup6 wrote: post #362
_nickwhite wrote: post #330

Something interesting here is that not only the Parler app was pulled... the _entire_ parlor.com domain and website registration is non-existent at the moment. It's like a black hole: >dig @1.1.1.1 parler.com +short

Can you offer some hypothesis that explain what happened?

Dreamhost is/was their domain name registrar- and even though Dreamhost didn't host Parler's services, they were taking massive heat on Twitter over it.

So I guess at some point, Dreamhost as a registrar silently deleted them. Now, even if Parler wanted to move somewhere, they would have to regain control of their domain from Dreamhost.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#415

Post by DangerousPie »

CivBase wrote: post #313
chasing wrote: post #41

Parler wasn't some innocent social media site that happened to have some disgusting content on it. The disgusting content was literally its reason for existing, despite all of the bland "we're just a free speech site" stuff. And I have yet to hear anyone discuss how "anything goes" and social media do not mix. It's much easier to turn a community toxic than it is to keep it healthy, and healthy communities (of any so…

To be fair, any social media platform built on the idea of protecting free speech will be the only platform on which "disgusting content" can be posted. That means it will inherently have a disproportionately large amount of "disgusting content". And that's before considering the insane uphill battle any social media platform has to fight to become as popular as the likes of Twitter, Facebook, etc - assuming the pres…

It's not like this was some innocent small service that suddenly got taken over. Parler was built by Trump supporters for Trump supporters.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#416

Post by _nickwhite »

shrimpx wrote: post #369
6sup6 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you offer some hypothesis that explain what happened?

They were likely running everything on aws including dns.

They were running all of their websites through AWS, but didn't use AWS as the registrar.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#417

Post by creatorbytes »

cactus2093 wrote: post #399
zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

> What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social? Vocally side with the popular issues, or try to stay completely out of them, to try to avoid becoming a target (e.g., social media presence)? For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. I get the concern you're expressing, but not everything is a s…

That’s quite the straw man. We should separate an issue of moderation and actual motives of the platform itself.

Did the platform have algorithms to make pro-capital storming posts ascend higher than other equally engaged posts?

Did the owner/company make a call to violence?

Did their platform spike in popularity in such a short time frame, they were unable to moderate to the same degree as other platforms? (Even Google struggles with YT moderation, though I understand the volume of content is widely different)

It’s obvious there exist political ties to this. Sure, have Parler respond to a congressional hearing just as other tech companies have had to do. But removing them from all these services overnight, albeit technically legal (so far), reeks of anti trust.

No matter political affiliation, the antitrust precedent set, if unpunished, will pave the way for greater censorship.

This seems like a similar level to price fixing - multiple companies, competing even, coordinating to cancel competition.

This is a new issue we have in the digital age. It should be handled in the Supreme Court.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#418

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

munificent wrote: post #310
mozillalives wrote: post #44

All I’m going to say is that I’m all for free speech and setting fair rules for everyone to play by (ie regulation), but looking at the examples provided in the buzzfeed articles this is beyond simple free speech. I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform. If Parler doesn’t want to do any content regula…

> I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech This is a specious argument on its face. The First Amendment does not say that private companies are obligated to spend money broadcasting someone else's speech. Hosting and serving isn't free and any private company has the freedom to decide what not to host. If an author's content is so toxic that advertisers wo…

As far as posting online, people aren't allowed to post child porn - anywhere. You don't get to complain about your free speech, or about hosting companies not hosting your child porn.

In this case, it looks like they also don't want to host your death threats.

There was no line to begin with. Nothing was crossed. This isn't anything new.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#419

Post by throwaway5752 »

I'm for free speech, but Parler is demonstrably against it. The aggressively ban users for ideological reasons. That doesn't impact my feelings on speech and I support it without exception. What it does impact is how I prioritize Parler's issues. Groups other than the American right face far worse probabilities of being arrested and charged for frivolous reasons. I will worry about them first. I only have finite time and resources.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#420

Post by gnicholas »

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

It appears there is a business opportunity to (re)create infrastructure for use by companies/individuals that have been banned from the mainstream platforms.

I'm sure such a platform would be despised by many in the mainstream, and most mainstream companies would not consider using them because customers would boycott them if they did. But for companies whose customers are primarily on the right, the cost/benefit could be favorable. If there are enough such companies, someone could build a business that caters to them.

I don't know anything about how complex it would be to set up companies to replace AWS, Stripe, etc., but I imagine that at least some of these services will be offered (probably at higher cost, due to lower scale/efficiencies) within the next year or two.

Even my liberal friends think that the de-platforming has gone too far — and the Trump presidency hasn't even officially ended yet. Most thought that the companies would wait until after Trump was no longer President and then ban him on the grounds that his behavior was only previously allowed because he was a political figure.

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