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Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

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Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#71

Post by titzer »

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

> I just want a world where stuff lasting a lifetime exists.

I think this is part of the point you are trying to make, but everything requires maintenance. Not sure what model fridge you have, but a bulb replacement should be not too hard to pull off on your own.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#72

Post by Mauricebranagh »

nfriedly wrote: post #52

I just replaced the battery in my Pixel 2 this past weekend. It was a 2-3 hour project that involved a whole kit of tools in addition to the new battery. It was a PITA, but I am thankful that a) iFixit provided a helpful guide and a kit with all of the things I needed except for the rubbing alcohol and b) it was legal and there weren't any software issues to deal with. Aside from the aging battery and occasionally ru…

But why not buy a cheap motog phone and save $500 in the first place

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#73

Post by Nextgrid »

globile wrote: post #61
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Phone unlocking doesn't get much attention, but it is an integral part that no one wants to address or get their hands dirty with. There are many more locked phones in drawers or acting as mere paperweights than people actually care to disclose. Several years back we ran a poll to understand lifetime recycling habits. People aren't proud of dropping a phone and shattering the screen, but they are less proud of having…

Carrier locks are an absolute scam. The argument is that it allows carriers to offer subsidised phones and “repossess” them if the customer defaults on their bill by making it unusable.

However, in reality, not only does the carrier not mind if the phone keeps being used (as long as it’s on the carrier’s network) but the lock doesn’t expire once the customer pays off their plan.

Furthermore the process for unlocking a phone is intentionally made convoluted. Until recently, you couldn’t even figure out which carrier an Apple device was locked to without playing brute-force with all the carrier’s SIMs in the entire world and even Apple support couldn’t be of any help. And when you finally figure out which carrier it is, getting in touch with them is a pain and some have stupid policies like keeping the device on their network for 30 days before being able to request an unlock (a scummy attempt at getting some people to give up and just keep using their network past the deadline, or revenge against someone who doesn’t intend to do so by essentially making their device unusable for 30 days).

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#74

Post by titzer »

haakonhr wrote: post #4

This is great, although it somehow seems to me to be starting in the wrong end. The underlying problem is that it is more profitable/cheaper to just give you a new product (if something breaks while under warrantee) and then just throw away the old instead of repairing it. I don't know if it is because the externalities of waste are not taxed properly or if it is because manufacturing products that are hard to repair…

> I don't know if it is because the externalities of waste are not taxed properly or if it is because manufacturing products that are hard to repair gives more robust products and less waste in the end.

It's because our entire economic system is oriented toward growth and puts profit above everything else.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#75

Post by iamsb »

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

I sincerely hope that providing upgrades to software is also included as part of this. The only device I have which I dont actively use or give away is a Samsung galaxy tab which never received a single Android OS upgrade. I think it is reasonable for a consumer of a software+hardware integrated device to expect upgrades of software for say 3-5 years.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#76

Post by throwanem »

RankingMember wrote: post #55
bengale wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works) I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

It depends. A lot of modern fridges use LEDs and have control boards driving them that cost hundreds of dollars. If the LEDs are out, the likelihood is not that the LEDs are dead, but that something much more expensive failed.

The prices on those controllers are totally absurd, too. You end up paying four hundred bucks for something with a sub-$20 BOM cost.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#77

Post by steerablesafe »

mywacaday wrote: post #51
mc32 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem with electronics is often a brand new unit costs less than replacing a faulty part on an old unit due to miniaturization and having everything on chip combined with economics of scale. Still it’s a worthwhile pursuit. At some point pocket PCs/phones will be good enough, just as for many a 2014 laptop is still good enough.

Youtube on my mother in laws Samsung tablet from 2013 has stopped working. It has stopped because it has android 4 and you can't update chrome past V42 and youtube won't load without a later version of chrome. I installed firefox and she has access to youtube through the web for now. The tablet is in immaculate condition physically. if it played youtube in 2013 it should be able to play it now, it cost over €500 at t…

Maybe give Newpipe Legacy a try.

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.schabi.newpipelegacy/

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#79

Post by Nextgrid »

iamsb wrote: post #75
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

I sincerely hope that providing upgrades to software is also included as part of this. The only device I have which I dont actively use or give away is a Samsung galaxy tab which never received a single Android OS upgrade. I think it is reasonable for a consumer of a software+hardware integrated device to expect upgrades of software for say 3-5 years.

I think a better approach would be to force manufacturers to provide everything necessary for someone (the user or a third-party company) to develop alternative firmware. This means source code, datasheets of the hardware, and a way to bypass locked bootloaders or other code signature checks. Essentially, if you can't provide updates yourself, you should be giving away everything that's necessary for someone else to do it.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#80

Post by dijit »

globile wrote: post #61
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Phone unlocking doesn't get much attention, but it is an integral part that no one wants to address or get their hands dirty with. There are many more locked phones in drawers or acting as mere paperweights than people actually care to disclose. Several years back we ran a poll to understand lifetime recycling habits. People aren't proud of dropping a phone and shattering the screen, but they are less proud of having…

Selling locked phones in the UK and EU is already illegal

UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54692179

EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Di...

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