131–140 of 157 posts
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Amazing how form and freedom aren't antithetical, but are actually part and parcel of true liberty.
It's a strange paradox, but one that I've found time and again; 'liberty' to do anything anytime can be much more restrictive than 'freedom' to choose one thing and then move on.
Seek freedom and be a slave to your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
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the amount of wine required for the mass isn't exactly the same as what would be drunk during meals, especially as, in monasteries, not all monks are priests. And even if wine wouldn't be banned, I think the wine would be stored under lock and key, if only to avoid consumption outside of meals
And too, the recommended "hemina" portion is apparently just over a half a US pint. Certainly not enough to replace potentially bad water in a diet.
Those rules help the Church preserve the ancient knowledge until Gutenberg. As a Catholic, I'm devout of St. Benedict because the creation of monasteries have a huge impact of the human knowledge.
This is a widely known but misleading "fact". The truth is much more complicated. For one, an almost universally overlooked bit of history is how absolutely crucial muslim scholars were in preserving classical texts, in keeping an unbroken chain from the Classical Age until the Renaissance. Places like Al-Andalus -- muslim Iberia that is -- or Bagdhad, were the centres of knowledge in the world in their time, and als…
The importance of Ancient Greek literature in the Byzantine Empire is readily evident from things like Homer remaining a cornerstone of Byzantine education all the way through the first millennium, and Christian polemicists starting to write in Attic Greek instead of the Koine.
If you want to see just how much of the Greek tradition was preserved in the Christian world, and not the Muslim world, simply visit the Classical Philology section of any university library and look at the manuscript sources (including, yes, monastery copies) of any Oxford Classical Texts or Bibliotheca Teubneriana edition of Greek writers.
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This is a widely known but misleading "fact". The truth is much more complicated. For one, an almost universally overlooked bit of history is how absolutely crucial muslim scholars were in preserving classical texts, in keeping an unbroken chain from the Classical Age until the Renaissance. Places like Al-Andalus -- muslim Iberia that is -- or Bagdhad, were the centres of knowledge in the world in their time, and als…
I think it's always important, when talking about Al-Alndalus - that even in works like The ornament, there is the temptation to selectively play up cooperative elements of the society and turning a blind eye to the fact that the general circumstances of the society are not one in which we as moderns would see as particularly 'multicultural' or 'tolerant' ; Scholars are good at holding these things in separation lay…
Tier 1 (most intolerant): Suppress the out-group vigorously, including executions, torture, secret police, interrogations, etc.
Tier 2: Suppress the out-group violently (executions) any time they're noisy, but don't seek them out.
Tier 3: Disfavour the out-group, without permitting conversion.
Tier 4: Disfavour the out-group, permitting them to convert.
Tier 5: Disfavour the out-group socially and informally, but not in matters of enforced law.
Tier 6 (most tolerant): It's illegal to disfavour the out-group.
The reason I mention this is that modern notions of religious tolerance target maximum tolerance (Tier 6 or whatever), but there's a lot of variety through history. For example, I think that persecution of Jews under the Romans was, in some cases, only because the Jews were unwilling to also in-form-only obey the dictates of Roman religion (2nd Commandment makes that tricky). Contrast that with Nazi persecution of Jews, which was much more aggressive about seeking them out. It's worth it to identify that one of those is more tolerant than the other, even if we wish for our society to be more tolerant than either of those.
In that context, my understanding is that the Muslim law of the medieval period is pretty clear about tolerance, and that both Al-Andalus and Baghdad followed these rules. "People of the Book", i.e. non-Muslim monotheists, were granted a large set of very specific protections, while still being treated less well than Muslims. (Note that non-monotheists were not granted protections; I imagine that this did not result in much religious tolerance towards those people, but that's just a cynical guess.) These specific protections were strong enough that it made sense for non-conformist scholars (Christian or Jew, as long as they were monotheist) to migrate from Christendom to Dar al-Islam. Compared to modern west-coast notions of religious tolerance, this isn't great. But it's still remarkable and praiseworthy, especially in contrast with modern Sharia, and in contrast with then-contemporary Christian kingdoms.
In summary: it's not that medieval Muslim states were tolerant by modern humanist standards. It's that they were more tolerant than modern Sharia Muslim states, and more tolerant than medieval Christian states.
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There is no issue with alcohol in Catholicism. Indeed, some during the middle ages would live off beer alone during Lent, when they would abstain from food entirely. It is simply a question of moderation. There are many medevial images of monks drinking. "In Catholicsm, the Pint, the Pipe, and the Cross can all fit together." ~ GK Chesterton.
Indeed, when I was a kid, I learned that when the parish priest stopped by our home, we always offered him a shot of whiskey.
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AFAIK, chastity most often refers to abstinence prior to marriage, not the exclusion of marriage.
from what I remember of my catechism, the chastity would depends on one's state (single/widower, married, cleric). So for single persons, priest, monks => abstinence, married => fidelity to the spouse
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If I remember correctly, the ban against marriage came after the monasteries were well established. The monasteries were some of the largest estates in medieval Europe, and there was a fear that they would become dynasties that challenged the lords (or became poweful in their own right which could challenge the church hierarchy). The marriage prohibition kept the church in control of the monasteries and kept the rela…
I have never been able to square the catholic church ban on priest marrying with 1 Timothy 3: 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manne…
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I've always liked Catholic writer G.K. Chesterton's take: “Drink because you are happy, but never because you are miserable. Never drink when you are wretched without it, or you will be like the grey-faced gin-drinker in the slum; but drink when you would be happy without it, and you will be like the laughing peasant of Italy. Never drink because you need it, for this is rational drinking, and the way to death and he…
Nice. It's like the phrase "Drink to remember, not to forget".
I spent 2 weeks in a benedictine monastery in Italy, about 2 months ago. I think these were some of the most influential weeks of my life. I really hope I can write something useful for others, but the more I digest the experience, the more I think people need to do that themselves and come to their own conclusions.
What made you go and what made you leave though ?
Strong dhamma - thank you. I frequent budhist monasteries myself - i see how all prophets are indeed one, and how budha, christ and allah and all other gods stem from that one thing which we encounter after long meditations and prayer finally takes away our anger and hurt to open that door which cannot be closed. I have a grievance always with “it” for making it so hard for the most of us to access. But i practice. I…
> i see how all prophets are indeed one, and how budha, christ and allah and all other gods stem from that one thing which we encounter after long meditations and prayer finally takes away our anger and hurt to open that door which cannot be closed. There certainly are teachings that one might find in different religions, but to say that "all prophets are indeed one" and "how budha, christ and allah and all other god…