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St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

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Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#121

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jchallis wrote: post #20

Atheist fan speaking up for Benedict and his rule. My education was entirely organized by Benedictine nuns who internalized this rule and lived it daily. The focus on the importance of daily discipline made a big impression on me. Like the military, see an organization make short term sacrifices for longer term objectives made a big impression on me and how I spend my time. Ora et labora.

While it's not for everyone, I do believe everyone should be in an environment for an X amount of time in their life to learn basic discipline, ideally having to do with taking care of themselves and their environment. Things like food / cooking, regularity, hygiene, tidiness, and just getting on with things.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#122

Post by Cthulhu_ »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #40
jonah wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always liked Catholic writer G.K. Chesterton's take: “Drink because you are happy, but never because you are miserable. Never drink when you are wretched without it, or you will be like the grey-faced gin-drinker in the slum; but drink when you would be happy without it, and you will be like the laughing peasant of Italy. Never drink because you need it, for this is rational drinking, and the way to death and he…

Is this a good general rule for all drugs? Do them for happiness and only while happy; never when sad or for escape?

It's a good general rule for relationships and a lot of other things as well; don't go into one with the hopes it'll make you happy, don't go into one hoping it'll fill a gap or fulfill a need. Aim for interdependence instead of dependence.

And for the love of heck don't try and find a surrogate mom/dad. Do your own housekeeping and maintenance, earn your own money, live your own life before sharing it with another. Especially in my parents' generation, a lot of people went from home to live with their SO. People like my dad who never learned to cook and only had to get to grips with it when my mom started to work evenings. Mind you, that's also when I learned.

Anyway, modern day advice, try to live on your own for a while before living with someone else.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#123

Post by fakedang »

darkwater wrote: post #106
Thorentis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very saddening to see "modern" and "progressive" thinkers promote the idea of choice and freedom, while condemning those that choose particular lifestyles (monks, housewives, etc). Some of the happiest people in the world are the ones that choose a simple yet rewarding lifestyle. The unhappy ones, as I have invariably found, are those that are never happy with the choices of others.

A little problem with "housewives" here: many of them didn't choose anything, nor had a voice in choosing their lives. The same applied to monks centuries ago, if you weren't the first born, your destiny would be joining a monk life. But at least that stopped a while ago, while housewives by "force" are still a reality today in many situations.

But are they forced?

Ancedotal evidence but the wife of one of my cousins explicitly chose not to work in spite of having the required qualifications as a dentist, simply because she doesn't want to work and just wants to raise her children. Even though they live in an expensive city. Of course, you'd be hard pressed to find such examples these days.

On the other hand, I have cousins in marriages where both are forced to work because they live in an expensive city where one person's salary is often not enough to cover living expenses. And as trends go, I think we'll be seeing more of the workers by "force" example in the coming years.

Increasingly the trend I've observed within my large extended family and my fiancée's family (different cultures altogether) is that the wives in more affluent families tend to work as either housewives or in less taxing roles where they can still take care of the house, even if they can afford servants and carers, while the less affluent ones are required to have two breadwinners.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#124

Post by tasogare »

darkwater wrote: post #106
Thorentis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very saddening to see "modern" and "progressive" thinkers promote the idea of choice and freedom, while condemning those that choose particular lifestyles (monks, housewives, etc). Some of the happiest people in the world are the ones that choose a simple yet rewarding lifestyle. The unhappy ones, as I have invariably found, are those that are never happy with the choices of others.

A little problem with "housewives" here: many of them didn't choose anything, nor had a voice in choosing their lives. The same applied to monks centuries ago, if you weren't the first born, your destiny would be joining a monk life. But at least that stopped a while ago, while housewives by "force" are still a reality today in many situations.

Literally half the female population of Japan choose happily that path. And your claim about non first borns all going to become monks made no historical sense whatsoever.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#125

Post by idclip »

wolfhumble wrote: post #112
idclip wrote: post #100

Strong dhamma - thank you. I frequent budhist monasteries myself - i see how all prophets are indeed one, and how budha, christ and allah and all other gods stem from that one thing which we encounter after long meditations and prayer finally takes away our anger and hurt to open that door which cannot be closed. I have a grievance always with “it” for making it so hard for the most of us to access. But i practice. I…

> i see how all prophets are indeed one, and how budha, christ and allah and all other gods stem from that one thing which we encounter after long meditations and prayer finally takes away our anger and hurt to open that door which cannot be closed. There certainly are teachings that one might find in different religions, but to say that "all prophets are indeed one" and "how budha, christ and allah and all other god…

I have read the three monothiestic religions and have a practicing budhist for 3. Thousands of hours of silence now. As the buddha states, we must all each do the work, not adhere to scripture - the work is simple yet hard - i suggest you try vipassana or any type of extended silence retreats (muslim, christian ... it doesnt matter. I spoke wirh christisn and muslims who were on intensive prayer retreats, they reported the same experience)

seek truth within yourself brother - if you chase interpretation and opinion, you will spiral down. The truth itself is within you, in your flesh, inside your mind is an undying light surrounded by your traumas/impurities. Don't try to assume .. simply discover - the mind wishes to argue its way around truth and console itself with what it thinks is intellectual, but its just a battery of randomness.

Call it what we may, jhanna, yana, grace .. the understanding is truth itself - i wont and cant convince you, its work left for you.

I for one, do not see separation a anymore

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#126

Post by wsgeorge »

science4sail wrote: post #86

From Chapter 3 > Whenever any important business has to be done in the monastery, let the Abbot call together the whole community and state the matter to be acted upon. Then, having heard the brethren’s advice, let him turn the matter over in his own mind and do what he shall judge to be most expedient. The reason we have said that all should be called for counsel is that the Lord often reveals to the younger what is…

> "new hires bring fresh new ideas."

Now that is is an interesting take on "the Lord often reveals to the younger what is best." :)

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#127

Post by mnw21cam »

pge wrote: post #64
copperwater69 wrote: post #4

I can't see anything about celibacy

If I remember correctly, the ban against marriage came after the monasteries were well established. The monasteries were some of the largest estates in medieval Europe, and there was a fear that they would become dynasties that challenged the lords (or became poweful in their own right which could challenge the church hierarchy). The marriage prohibition kept the church in control of the monasteries and kept the rela…

I have never been able to square the catholic church ban on priest marrying with 1 Timothy 3:

2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#128

Post by bregma »

Thorentis wrote: post #77
geerlingguy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a strange paradox, but one that I've found time and again; 'liberty' to do anything anytime can be much more restrictive than 'freedom' to choose one thing and then move on.

It is very saddening to see "modern" and "progressive" thinkers promote the idea of choice and freedom, while condemning those that choose particular lifestyles (monks, housewives, etc). Some of the happiest people in the world are the ones that choose a simple yet rewarding lifestyle. The unhappy ones, as I have invariably found, are those that are never happy with the choices of others.

I have never met a modern or progressive thinker who would condemn someone's lifestyle choice: I have only ever heard that as a criticism levelled by reactionaries who have only been exposed to an echo chamber. It is those people who seem to be most unhappy with the choices of others.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#130

Post by spthorn60 »

baud147258 wrote: post #33
tenpies wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always considered it more of a reflection on practicality. There is going to be wine around the monastery, if only because it is necessary for Mass. Therefore, you cannot really ban wine, so are you really going to dedicate a group of monks to the sole task of cellar guard duty?

the amount of wine required for the mass isn't exactly the same as what would be drunk during meals, especially as, in monasteries, not all monks are priests. And even if wine wouldn't be banned, I think the wine would be stored under lock and key, if only to avoid consumption outside of meals

And too, the recommended "hemina" portion is apparently just over a half a US pint. Certainly not enough to replace potentially bad water in a diet.
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