Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#51

Post by mywacaday » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #11

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Part of the problem with electronics is often a brand new unit costs less than replacing a faulty part on an old unit due to miniaturization and having everything on chip combined with economics of scale. Still it’s a worthwhile pursuit. At some point pocket PCs/phones will be good enough, just as for many a 2014 laptop is still good enough.

Youtube on my mother in laws Samsung tablet from 2013 has stopped working. It has stopped because it has android 4 and you can't update chrome past V42 and youtube won't load without a later version of chrome. I installed firefox and she has access to youtube through the web for now. The tablet is in immaculate condition physically. if it played youtube in 2013 it should be able to play it now, it cost over €500 at the time. How is this anything else except planned obsolescence. I know there will be comments about security etc but she only needs it for youtube and solitaire.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#52

Post by nfriedly » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

I just replaced the battery in my Pixel 2 this past weekend. It was a 2-3 hour project that involved a whole kit of tools in addition to the new battery.

It was a PITA, but I am thankful that a) iFixit provided a helpful guide and a kit with all of the things I needed except for the rubbing alcohol and b) it was legal and there weren't any software issues to deal with.

Aside from the aging battery and occasionally running out of storage, the phone was completely fine for my needs. For ~$50 and a few hours of time, I've essentially doubled the lifespan of my $700 phone.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#53

Post by rusk » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

bengale wrote: post #43

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works) I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

Pretty sure these are usually standard bulbs ...

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#54

Post by ganafagol » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #32

onli wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already are. Phones from 2016 for example feel completely usable today. That goes for the repairable ones at least, like the LG G5, but even the older LG G3 holds up well. If all modern phones were as repairable as those we could eliminate so much garbage!

My old phones are often usable, which is why I only upgrade every three years or so. However, when I do upgrade after waiting so long, it's like I've traveled through time with the improvements. It seems that most people want more than just usable. They may not want to pay more for a device up front, knowing they will be missing out on the latest technology down the road.

Considering 3 years a long time to replace a device is part of the problem.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#55

Post by RankingMember » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

bengale wrote: post #43

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works) I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

It depends. A lot of modern fridges use LEDs and have control boards driving them that cost hundreds of dollars. If the LEDs are out, the likelihood is not that the LEDs are dead, but that something much more expensive failed.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#56

Post by echelon » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #53

bengale wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works) I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

Pretty sure these are usually standard bulbs ...

Not modern fridges.

That trend has become ubiquitous: cars, laptops, phones...

Nothing is designed to be fixed at home anymore. If there were regulations that required it, we'd still have the same advanced tech, but it'd be repair friendly.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#57

Post by modo_mario » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #37

franczesko wrote: post #22

As a person who is living in EU, I didn't know that there's even a discussion about whether you can or can't repair the things you own. Sounds pretty weird. Repairing things is a common practice since I can't remember when. Did I miss anything?

There really isn’t much debate about “right to repair”, compared to the US. I think most just assume it’s not worth the hassel and cost. I would guess that the cost of repairing the average TV be at least 25 to 50% of the cost of a new TV. Highend stuff have always been repairable. The focus needs to be on making things repairable by the consumer, and easy to recycle. Both mean that you need to be able to take the it…

>Highend stuff have always been repairable.

As some have found out if you try to offer repairs of something as a service because it requires a bunch of technical knowledge in a way that the company doesn't like you can get sued into bankruptcy.

Things aren't repairable by consumers however easy it is to take em apart if you can't get official parts (at a reasonable price) and aren't technically allowed to use alternative ones.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#58

Post by wizzard » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

bengale wrote: post #43

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works) I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

YouTube has been a game changer for me. I’ve repaired my dishwasher, shower handle valve, refrigerator drain, replaced thermal paste in my laptop, all kinds of things. It seems like there’s a decent video for everything, and some random website (or eBay) selling parts.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#59

Post by fridek » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #53

bengale wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works) I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

Pretty sure these are usually standard bulbs ...

Trust me I'm an engineer? But always happy to have HN debug my fridge, so here we go: turns out the light bulb, when replaced, keeps overheating and even metled the surrounding casing. Some electrical issue I'd have to take the fridge apart to debug. I might be unfair with this one though, it's a 20 year old fridge and is probably serviceable.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#60

Post by mrweasel » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #20

First reaction is that this is good news, but I think two things needs to be looked at: One, what drives people to replace devices? I feel (not scientific at all!) that wanting a new shiny device and, if broken, cost of repair, are higher on the list than not being able to repair. Two, the law of unintended consequences: Making devices more repairable may increase their footprint in terms of material and thus waste.…

If people don’t adopt a mindset of repair/upgrade and just continue to replace devices at the same rate, then sure more material is going to be used. Those devices will be easier to take apart and recycle though.

This isn’t just about phones and laptops, but also appliances, and people aren’t really upgrading fridges or stowes because a new model is available. Many only get new cars because the repair bill now exceed the monthly cost of a new car.