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Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

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Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#11

Post by mc32 »

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Part of the problem with electronics is often a brand new unit costs less than replacing a faulty part on an old unit due to miniaturization and having everything on chip combined with economics of scale.

Still it’s a worthwhile pursuit. At some point pocket PCs/phones will be good enough, just as for many a 2014 laptop is still good enough.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#12

Post by onli »

mc32 wrote: post #11
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Part of the problem with electronics is often a brand new unit costs less than replacing a faulty part on an old unit due to miniaturization and having everything on chip combined with economics of scale. Still it’s a worthwhile pursuit. At some point pocket PCs/phones will be good enough, just as for many a 2014 laptop is still good enough.

They already are. Phones from 2016 for example feel completely usable today. That goes for the repairable ones at least, like the LG G5, but even the older LG G3 holds up well.

If all modern phones were as repairable as those we could eliminate so much garbage!

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#13

Post by gostsamo »

nashashmi wrote: post #3

As a someone who goes against anti-right-to-repair laws, I am not so enthused with a mandate that all devices be repairable. Because there maybe cases where devices can’t be repaired. What kind of problems will something like this create for future device manufacturers?

The legislation does not cover all devices so there is both deliberation and lobbying when choosing which are going to be regulated.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#14

Post by recursivedoubts »

A proposal:

All durable consumer goods may apply for a repair QR code. At landfills, items with repair QR codes are scanned and the company is charged 50% of the cost of processing the item.

If one is not applied for, the producer must pay the full cost of processing the item up front.

This would encourage companies to make repair & upgrade and longetivity a priority.

It's a rough idea.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#15

Post by simongray »

readflaggedcomm wrote: post #7
haakonhr wrote: post #4

This is great, although it somehow seems to me to be starting in the wrong end. The underlying problem is that it is more profitable/cheaper to just give you a new product (if something breaks while under warrantee) and then just throw away the old instead of repairing it. I don't know if it is because the externalities of waste are not taxed properly or if it is because manufacturing products that are hard to repair…

When repair labor costs more than automated production, then it's cheaper to replace whole units than mend parts. This is very much in line when what the Luddites understood. Fixation on "waste" is a by-product of unrelated worries which are fashionable today, but cheap production at a distance is what labor should worry about, instead.

> Fixation on "waste" is a by-product of unrelated worries which are fashionable today

We have finite resources on this planet. Policies like this that deal with negative externalities aren't driven by fashion, they are driven by our long term needs. And we do need to recycle more and consume less. This is part of the solution.

> cheap production at a distance is what labor should worry about, instead

You're simply describing the status quo. The same status quo which has resulted in the warmest year on record for how many years in a row now...?

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#16

Post by vagrantJin »

emteycz wrote: post #9
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

But it exists - it's not that stuff is worse now than it was before, you just have to spend the value (not amount) of money you spent back in the 60's. Our family houses are full of stuff that lasts a lifetime and/or can be easily fixed - you just can't buy the first thing the ad in TV suggests.

That manufacturers are actually hostile towards end users says a lot about our current state of helplessness.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#18

Post by fridek »

emteycz wrote: post #9
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

But it exists - it's not that stuff is worse now than it was before, you just have to spend the value (not amount) of money you spent back in the 60's. Our family houses are full of stuff that lasts a lifetime and/or can be easily fixed - you just can't buy the first thing the ad in TV suggests.

Disagree. I'm willing to throw heaps of hard earned money to recover my time spent being bothered by such problems. I researched and tried many "premium" brands, with minor exceptions they proved to be planned for obsolence too. I had good experience with small companies/kickstarters. Once they grow to the point of being "popular", economies of scale and CFOs show up to the table and eat your cake.

In all of the following I got a new thing looking for some new feature or because I could I guess, and had the older device outlasted the newer one: Bose headphones, any mobile phone really, Thinkpad laptops, Audi cars, Brother printers, any and all household appliances.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#19

Post by syshum »

onli wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem with electronics is often a brand new unit costs less than replacing a faulty part on an old unit due to miniaturization and having everything on chip combined with economics of scale. Still it’s a worthwhile pursuit. At some point pocket PCs/phones will be good enough, just as for many a 2014 laptop is still good enough.

They already are. Phones from 2016 for example feel completely usable today. That goes for the repairable ones at least, like the LG G5, but even the older LG G3 holds up well. If all modern phones were as repairable as those we could eliminate so much garbage!

My phone today is completely usable but the carrier has decided to stop issuing updates to the phone....

This is the worst kind of planned obsolesces

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#20

Post by mytailorisrich »

First reaction is that this is good news, but I think two things needs to be looked at:

One, what drives people to replace devices? I feel (not scientific at all!) that wanting a new shiny device and, if broken, cost of repair, are higher on the list than not being able to repair.

Two, the law of unintended consequences: Making devices more repairable may increase their footprint in terms of material and thus waste. If people do not have their devices repaired more (e.g. because of (1) above ) then the net result might be worse than the current situation.

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