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Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

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Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#191

Post by shadowgovt »

feralimal wrote: post #143
shadowgovt wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the benefit the governance structure derives from general misinformation on most topics? Governance is harder when people don't know things.

Think about it. If people have the wrong information, that means that they cannot respond meaningfully. If you are swimming in a world of lies, how will you give the correct answer? UPDATE/EDIT And, in other conspiracy news, I am unable to reply to comments below. "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." This will probably prevent me from replying for a few hours (last time it was 3 hours). Understandably…

If you're swimming in a world of lies, how do you feed yourself? Because not through government; they don't want that job.

What do you imagine government's goal to be? Especially in a country like the US where half the elected are trying to shrink it?

People believing lies led to a mob storming the US Congress. Do you think the goal of the people in government was to get lynched by a mob?

(I use hacker news because it is moderated. That's not part of the problem)

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#192

Post by rufus_foreman »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

>> I have to admit that society works better when the gatekeepers decide what the truth is

There are people out there who know exactly what to use you for.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#193

Post by apta_ »

Renaud wrote: post #103
ansible wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I do have a very strong opinion on all that. I just wanted to note that the "other side" that I'm not on, also believes basically the same thing with regards to my side.

Having an opinion you strongly believe in is not enough to make it true or right. The republicans have espoused a dangerous ideology that not just allows but welcomes factual untruths and a worrying disconnect from rational thought. There is a need for political parties of various philosophical bents to push and pull in different directions based on reasoned and informed decisions. Once you give up that core groundin…

> The republicans have espoused a dangerous ideology that not just allows but welcomes factual untruths and a worrying disconnect from rational thought.

As if the dems didn't do the same? Let's be honest with ourselves, both extremes are very dangerous, and polarization is continuing. The far left will kill people if left to their accord: https://cdn.cnsnews.com/styles/article_big/s3/2021-01/Arthur...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#194

Post by apta_ »

duxup wrote: post #48
ansible wrote: post #43

I'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a na…

I don't know what to say to people who want someone else killed...

The far left is equally bad: https://cdn.cnsnews.com/styles/article_big/s3/2021-01/Arthur...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#195

Post by apta_ »

ansible wrote: post #59
duxup wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to say to people who want someone else killed...

Almost everyone (including really terrible people) don't want people killed. That is why it is often necessary to de-humanize the enemy. We give them labels, make them not worthy of the protections of civil society, and then it is justified if they die. Because they are not people anymore.

Exactly, and both sides are guilty of that: https://cdn.cnsnews.com/styles/article_big/s3/2021-01/Arthur...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#196

Post by mckirk »

throw0101a wrote: post #182
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

> Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an expert! How can the average person tell? Good book by Tom Nichols: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Expertise Not anything recent: > There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the fals…

I'm a bit irked by these 'always been a thing'-responses.

Yes, it may be true that the thing (whatever it may be) is not a recent development, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have steadily gotten worse over time and might eventually reach a tipping point that would be worth worrying about.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#197

Post by johnchristopher »

dustingetz wrote: post #116
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

The thing that makes society work better is accountability, which lets us cooperate at ever larger scales without cheaters. The book "The Reckoning: Financial Accountability and the Rise and Fall of Nations" describes how the advent of double entry accounting meant that you could detect fraud, and suddenly you could do things like give your goods to a naval merchant who will sail away with them and bring you back the…

But hasn't Trump (and others) shown that if you repeat the lies enough people start believing them and those who could debunk them slowly gives up by lack of time or resources ?

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#198

Post by jvreagan »

ModernMech wrote: post #177
jvreagan wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described both sides. Side a: 2016 US election was stolen. 2020 was fair and square. Side b: 2020 US election was stolen. 2016 election was fair and square. Seems that there are a small number of people who think a) both elections were stolen or b) both elections were fair and square. They are being drowned out by sides a and b. If you fit side a or b above, you might want to some logical thinking. Pretty si…

You have to pay more attention to what both sides were arguing. In 2016, side A was arguing that the inputs to the election (voter opinions) were manipulated by foreign agents. This claim was 100% proven true by the Mueller report. Whether this actually changed the results of the election is impossible to say (I am of the opinion it was Comey's announcement 11 days before the election which tipped a close election to…

Hilary Clinton used the term "stolen election" throughout the last four years, including 2020. That's not an input, it's an output. People - including the media - called Trump an illegitimate President for 4 years. That's not an input, it's an output. Perhaps you should be the one paying more attention instead of getting defensive when your hypocrisy is exposed.

You can try to spin it or rationalize it all you want, both sides are behaving the same.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#199

Post by ZeroGravitas »

maram wrote: post #170
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

> I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. The least thing Twitter could do is allow us to see who started a specific hashtag. Hashtags can be pushed…

Wouldn't this encourage false-flag hashtag squatting? Just figure out what your "enemies" are likely to hashtag, and set up some unpleasant accounts to use the tags before they do.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#200

Post by defertoreptar »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

What you're referring to as "gatekeepers," I would see as one of many sources of evidence. Others include direct experience, non-expert opinion, data from experiments/studies, and so on. Ideally we'd weigh each source of evidence by how trustworthy and reliable they are, and then we'd use our brain to make sense of what may be true based on that evidence.

Society does not "work better when gatekeepers decide what the truth is." That's especially the case when the "truth" is political, and people have ideological incentives to report what they see as the truth in a certain light. Instead, society works better when individuals are free to look at the evidence and think about it for themselves. This is because in this case, you're treating the members of that society with human dignity.

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