Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#141

Post by netsharc » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

feralimal wrote: post #92

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

> I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Very honest! > As much as it goes against my grain, I have to admit that society works better when the gatekeepers decide what the truth is, even though we know they don’t always get it right. No! They don't always get it right?! They are literally there to ensure you get it wron…

> They are literally there to ensure you get it wrong! They really are. They are part of the governance structure - they will not tell you the way out of this situation, or give you good information.

> Verify everything you accept as true

Hah... so, did you verify this stuff about MSM being a force to mislead?

The problem with the Internet nowadays is, it's already like a Library of Babel [0], if you want to have your views confirmed on anything, you can find someone saying "Yes, it's like that.".

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#142

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #123

blakesterz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. You're partially right. We have at least two sides. One side is CLEARLY delusional. Fueled by conspiracy theories and lies. We also have other sides, but the two sides that get the most attention are the only sides that matter. We have one side that is most definitely delusional, other…

I'm sorry but just because a small vocal and extreme part of the conservative party has chosen to buy into conspiracy theories does not mean the entire side has. I know many conservatives who have not gone down this path and hate what DJT has done to the party. Calling a huge portion of the country delusional with no basis or fact is precisely what is driving this division. Both sides have a lot more in common than y…

It would help if compromises would be made in order to further progression of society. Politically, you have to root out the circus part of the current agenda, meant as diversion and confusion tactics.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#143

Post by feralimal » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #130

feralimal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Very honest! > As much as it goes against my grain, I have to admit that society works better when the gatekeepers decide what the truth is, even though we know they don’t always get it right. No! They don't always get it right?! They are literally there to ensure you get it wron…

What is the benefit the governance structure derives from general misinformation on most topics? Governance is harder when people don't know things.

Think about it. If people have the wrong information, that means that they cannot respond meaningfully. If you are swimming in a world of lies, how will you give the correct answer?

UPDATE/EDIT

And, in other conspiracy news, I am unable to reply to comments below. "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." This will probably prevent me from replying for a few hours (last time it was 3 hours). Understandably, people will think I'm flaky and unable to defend my position, where I am happy to have a meaningful interaction and share a different point of view.

Ask yourself, should I be able to say what I have said, in a free society? Did you think HN wasn't part of the problem?

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#144

Post by ansible » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #82

ansible wrote: post #43

I'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a na…

> No set of agreed-upon facts? That's just not true. There are good statistics on the number of deaths and positive tests for Covid. There is a reliable and agreed upon process for counting votes in the states, and plenty of avenues to dispute those counts, and a court system that has heard every single complaint from the losing Presidential candidate and made clear rulings based on the evidence. What is abundantly p…

Let me be very clear, I do wish there was an objective set of facts that are agreed to by both sides. But that doesn't seem to be true anymore.

> There are good statistics on the number of deaths and positive tests for Covid.

There is a significant segment of the population that believes the virus is a hoax, or not nearly as bad as the media says. Some of these people, even while dying from the virus, are still in denial, and yell at the medical staff about it.

Go watch some interviews with doctors and nurses. It will make you very sad and disappointed in humanity.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#145

Post by Darmody » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #98

Darmody wrote: post #34

If that was about reporting what happened at the Capitol I don't think it should've been removed. But if people was asking in Twitter for Pence to be hanged, then yes. We shouldn't treat the same way reporting violence than violence itself.

I don't think I agree. Me tweeting "it's bad to say 'hang mike pence'" is still letting the concept of Mike Pence being hanged propagate. I mean, we're talking about it right now on Hacker News, even! Toxic ideas are like a virus, and even well-meaning opposition can serve as a host, allowing them to spread rapidly rather than die out.

Then what do you suggest? To we censor the news altogether? They report facts and usually they do it on a very editorialized way.

Hiding information from the population is what authoritarian states do.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#146

Post by MontyCarloHall » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

vladTheInhaler wrote: post #119

jimbokun wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPR does a good job of presenting the basic facts in their news segments, but their commentary, editorial, and human interest programming is 100% progressive.

Can you give me an example of a story you believe is overtly "progressive"?

How about the story that gave serious airtime to the book “In Defense of Looting” [0], which as the title implies, wholeheartedly condoned the looting and rioting that occurred during the summer protests.

[0] https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#147

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

InvaderFizz wrote: post #89

blakesterz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. You're partially right. We have at least two sides. One side is CLEARLY delusional. Fueled by conspiracy theories and lies. We also have other sides, but the two sides that get the most attention are the only sides that matter. We have one side that is most definitely delusional, other…

> One side is CLEARLY delusional. Fueled by conspiracy theories and lies. Which set of conspiracy theories? The crazy ones that Trump was a Russian asset and everything surrounding that nutbaggery for four years? How about the current nutbaggery from the other extreme that this election was stollen through voting machine manipulation, ballot stuffing, discarded Trump ballots by postal workers, etc. It's hard for me t…

It's plain Trump admires Putin, and even fell in love with Kim Il-Sung. You can't box in that person as a normal human being, but have to see past the appearances what he truly aspires too. More and more people realize this now, but many of us have revealed this for many years already. Especially past victims will tell you horror-stories. What happened now was to be expected, and worse.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#148

Post by throwaway201103 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #82

ansible wrote: post #43

I'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a na…

> No set of agreed-upon facts? That's just not true. There are good statistics on the number of deaths and positive tests for Covid. There is a reliable and agreed upon process for counting votes in the states, and plenty of avenues to dispute those counts, and a court system that has heard every single complaint from the losing Presidential candidate and made clear rulings based on the evidence. What is abundantly p…

> made clear rulings based on the evidence.

At least some, maybe most of those challenges were dismissed on procedural grounds, lack of standing, etc. They never got to the point of examining the "evidence." Maybe the retort to that is the challengers should have foreseen that. But the people filing these challenges were not unhinged randos from Twitter. They were elected officials, lawyers, educated people. They aren't going to go into court with something they know is frivolous.

Given that a sizable minority (and likely unprecedented number) of the voting public thinks there was fraud in the 2020 election, maybe it would have been better to have rebutted the evidence rather than the process.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#149

Post by bjtitus » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #111

creato wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a perfect example of why social media is a total disaster and no one should be trusting it for anything at all. There are many, many things that seem to be taken as fact on social media that are impossible to find on any reputable media source. Maybe the crowd was chanting hang Mike Pence, maybe not. I'll wait until a credible source reports it. The AP had reporters in the crowd (getting assaulted [1]), presu…

At least these you don't have to rely on a reputable source -- much of what happened in the capitol was captured on video. In some cases, it was streamed live. You still need to take care to see the entire context of the situation -- It's still easy to be fooled by a 2 minute clip but it's much harder with a 20 minute or hour long clip.

I'm not really sure how a longer clip or even a live stream is as reliable as a reputable source + those things. They can both be easily dubbed over and manipulated as well. I don't think it will be long before this is happening regularly.

If a reporter and publication release the evidence and also stand by it's authenticity, that definitely lends more credence and at least allow you to filter where information is coming from by reliability.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#150

Post by feralimal » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #141

feralimal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Very honest! > As much as it goes against my grain, I have to admit that society works better when the gatekeepers decide what the truth is, even though we know they don’t always get it right. No! They don't always get it right?! They are literally there to ensure you get it wron…

> They are literally there to ensure you get it wrong! They really are. They are part of the governance structure - they will not tell you the way out of this situation, or give you good information. > Verify everything you accept as true Hah... so, did you verify this stuff about MSM being a force to mislead? The problem with the Internet nowadays is, it's already like a Library of Babel [0], if you want to have you…

> Hah... so, did you verify this stuff about MSM being a force to mislead?

Its obvious. If you look at what is presented, you are given lots of claims, but very few facts. Its just a load of evidence-free noise. What's to evaluate?!

Seriously, look a little deeper at almost any article. There is no actual information there. The question you should ask - critically - is how do I know this to be true? And if you don't know it to be true, why do you believe it to be true anyway?

UPDATE/EDIT

And, in other conspiracy news, I am unable to reply to comments below. "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." This will probably prevent me from replying for a few hours (last time it was 3 hours). Understandably, people will think I'm flaky and unable to defend my position, where I am happy to have a meaningful interaction and share a different point of view.

Ask yourself, should I be able to say what I have said, in a free society? Did you think HN wasn't part of the problem?