Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol • Hacker News Board

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#101

Post by newacct583 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

OminousWeapons wrote: post #94

newacct583 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate that this is downvoted, because it's so clearly true. There is a heavily armed, deeply mistrustful subculture in this country that has been TRAINED by its leaders (including most of the now-minority party) that it is going to need to overthrow the government someday. And they tried. Last Wednesday. What happens when they succeed? Now, to be fair: I don't think guns (as machines) are the core problem here. Remo…

I think what you mean by "gun culture" is more "tacticool culture" which interests a sub set of firearms owners. I agree that this is a problematic culture, but it's not the dominant culture. A large number if not most gun owners including myself own firearms for lawful self defense, hunting, sport, or job related duties (eg ranching, security) and have no interest in running around in plate armor or joining a militi…

I see the distinction you're making, but... I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism.

> constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people

And see... this sort of defensiveness is why we can't solve this. I know it doesn't seem like that to you, but by refusing to call these people out and instead hitting back with statements like that, you are circling the wagons with the terrorists.

I don't know how to fix this if you won't meet the rest of us half way.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#102

Post by dekhn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #37

bagacrap wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure I'd rather be shot by a hunting rifle than an assault rifle. Hunting rifles aren't designed to blow a deer's leg off.

You clearly don’t know anything about firearms. An “assault” rifle bullet/round (5.56mm/0.223) is smaller and less powerful than a typical hunting rifle (7.62mm/0.308) round. “Assault” rifles aren’t designed to blow your anyone’s leg off.

This sort of denying all the technology in assault weapons to maximize destruction. It's the kinetic energy, the design of the bullet, there's recoil mitigation, bullet cavitation, etc. They are weapons designed to reduce the amount of effort required to stop people, permanently.

(I'm not a gun nut but I am a physics nerd, so i read up on how assault weapons differ from more conventional hunting weapons. Note that many people hunt using assault rifles now).

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#103

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #101

OminousWeapons wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you mean by "gun culture" is more "tacticool culture" which interests a sub set of firearms owners. I agree that this is a problematic culture, but it's not the dominant culture. A large number if not most gun owners including myself own firearms for lawful self defense, hunting, sport, or job related duties (eg ranching, security) and have no interest in running around in plate armor or joining a militi…

I see the distinction you're making, but... I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. > constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people And see... thi…

> Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism.

No, they don't.

Maybe all the ones you know do, but any individuals circle of familiarity probably isn't representative.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#104

Post by thr_120 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

jdanp wrote: post #70

bbg24 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wonder if this is what makes lawmakers consider some sensible gun regulation... I can't comprehend why an average civilian would need license to keep and/or carry a firearm. None of the arguments seem to stack up, at least, from my perspective.

The way you phrased this is funny because it can be interpreted as either a pro gun or anti gun statement: 1. Civilians should be able to keep or carry a firearm without a license. 2. No civilian should be able to keep or carry a firearm. In America licenses are not generally required to purchase handguns, rifles, or shotguns except in the more restrictive states. And each year more and more states are trending towar…

> In America licenses are not generally required to purchase handguns...

Now I understand why police in the USA is so aggressive when they expect citizens to be armed. People are talking 'defund police' while problem lies in Constitution.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#105

Post by newacct583 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #103

newacct583 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the distinction you're making, but... I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. > constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people And see... thi…

> Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. No, they don't. Maybe all the ones you know do, but any individuals circle of familiarity probably isn't representative.

And again, I cite the fact that you're getting defensive about attempts to call out this "tacticool"[1] subculture as dangerous instead of joining in the denunciation along with the rest of us as evidence that you associate more with their ideals than you may want to admit.

If it's a problematic subculture it should be a problem, and not dismissed. I don't see that happening from anywhere on the right.

[1] To pick the term above, which seems like a horrifying euphemism to my ears. But let's go with it.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#106

Post by mcphage » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #98

mcphage wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> told police he had mason jars filled with "melted Styrofoam and gasoline." Federal investigators believe that combination, if exploded, would have the effect of napalm "insofar as it causes the flammable liquid to better stick to objects that it hits upon detonation," according to the court record. That’s the recipe for napalm in the old Anarchist’s Handbook. I don’t recall it working very well.

> That’s the recipe for napalm in the old Anarchist’s Handbook. I don’t recall it working very well. I messed around with it as a stupid teenager. In my experience, it works very well.

Me too... you must have had better luck, then. Maybe I had the ratios wrong?

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#107

Post by benjohnson » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #102

GiorgioG wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly don’t know anything about firearms. An “assault” rifle bullet/round (5.56mm/0.223) is smaller and less powerful than a typical hunting rifle (7.62mm/0.308) round. “Assault” rifles aren’t designed to blow your anyone’s leg off.

This sort of denying all the technology in assault weapons to maximize destruction. It's the kinetic energy, the design of the bullet, there's recoil mitigation, bullet cavitation, etc. They are weapons designed to reduce the amount of effort required to stop people, permanently. (I'm not a gun nut but I am a physics nerd, so i read up on how assault weapons differ from more conventional hunting weapons. Note that ma…

In a few states, you can use an assault rifle for hunting deer.

But it only makes sense at really close range with excellent shot placement - anything less that is inhumane and causes the deer to suffer.

You can also verify this by checking the rifles that snipers use if they have a choice - it's never an assault rifle.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#108

Post by throw0101a » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

buran77 wrote: post #7

> Another man allegedly showed up in the nation's capital with an assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition and told acquaintances that he wanted to shoot or run over House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, prosecutors said. Wonder if this is what makes lawmakers consider some sensible gun regulation...

> Wonder if this is what makes lawmakers consider some sensible gun regulation...

Different people have differing view on what "sensible" is:

* https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy.html

In the US, Massachusetts seems to have things that work pretty well without being (at least to some) too draconian:

* https://www.vox.com/2018/11/13/17658028/massachusetts-gun-co...

IMHO, the main problem is that (a) some people have poor impulse control, and (b) many others aren't aware enough of the basic safety rules:

* https://twitter.com/well_regulated_

In Canada, the acronyms ACTS and PROVE are repeated over and over in the mandatory course(s), and if one follows them you reduce risk a lot:

* http://www.firearmstraining.ca/actsprove.htm

But sometimes people get too lazy/complacent even with them.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#109

Post by benjohnson » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

thr_120 wrote: post #104

jdanp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you phrased this is funny because it can be interpreted as either a pro gun or anti gun statement: 1. Civilians should be able to keep or carry a firearm without a license. 2. No civilian should be able to keep or carry a firearm. In America licenses are not generally required to purchase handguns, rifles, or shotguns except in the more restrictive states. And each year more and more states are trending towar…

> In America licenses are not generally required to purchase handguns... Now I understand why police in the USA is so aggressive when they expect citizens to be armed. People are talking 'defund police' while problem lies in Constitution.

The primary stated American reason to have guns isnt't personal self defense - it's to prevent governmental tyranny.

Frankly, I consider governments that have nuclear weapons and a disarmed citizenry much more dangerous that if the citizens are ultimately in control.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#110

Post by waihtis » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

tartaglia wrote: post #6

waihtis wrote: post #4

It was a terribly bad idea for the major tech platforms to go for the Trump ban right now. There’s a highy unstable force out there born specifically from the idea that they’re an oppressed and censored group of people, and this ban action is pouring a tanker of gasoline into an already raging bonfire. I get why it had to be done; the general public has never had any regard for second-order effects and big tech will…

I agree about the bad timing. They could have kept the accounts on, assigning a task force to review each post until 20th Jan. It looks to me like a symbolic gesture which is gonna fuel conspiracies and anger. I mean, the presidential account is still on so the guy is still able to tweet.

Exactly so. It would've been the smartest to clip the head off once the most momentum would have been blown off. That could've choked the entire movement.

The fact that I was heavily downvoted and flagged for stating the opinion speaks enough about what kind of knee-jerk reactions people are taking towards Trumpistas.