Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#891

Post by Corrado » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

jonemi wrote: post #719

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

For those who think the parent comment was conflating extreme right and average right, I just want to add some clarification as to why deplatforming still affects large swathes of the population and not just extreme segments. I’m a strong social and fiscal conservative who never voted for nor liked Trump. I’m religious and that informs my opinions on a lot of social issues. I would be in strange company on Parler, bu…

I feel like you are saying that we should all just take a step back and talk with each other instead of shouting at each other. If so, I agree. We are supposed to have different views and opinions. It's OK to believe different things than your neighbour.

I think the problem comes in when your neighbour has views and beliefs that are not based in reality and just can't see the other side. I don't have a problem with "preppers", as I can see that it's entirely possible that society might collapse and it's good to be prepared.

On the other hand, how do you deal with those that believe that the Earth is flat? Even when they discover that the facts don't align with their beliefs, they still can't accept it. If you can't agree on literal "facts" then it's hard to find any common ground on which to stand.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#892

Post by aksss » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #727

aksss wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've spent a couple years now (right?) tacitly approving rioting as an acceptable response to feeling disenfranchised. Now we're surprised when the same medicine gets used by others. For either side, I'm not sure it's proper minimize their complaints. If the BLM crowd says they have a serious problem with police violence, the best reaction is, "what can we do to restore confidence?" Similarly, when 40% of the countr…

> We've spent a couple years now (right?) tacitly approving rioting as an acceptable response to feeling disenfranchised. We have? You mean the police response, thousands of arrests, riot gear, national guard deployments across the US was "tacitly approving rioting?"

I think so, yes. The stand down orders given to police departments in major metro areas, for example. The discretionary lack of prosecution for many of those arrested. The allowance for protestors and counter-protestors fighting to become spectacle/sport. The national media coverage I watched and listened to was largely sympathetic to the idea that understanding was needed in the face of the burning and looting rather than reactionary exercise of control to enforce order.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#893

Post by shripadk » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

Thanks for saying this. I'm glad I am not the only one feeling this way after all!

I literally said the same thing yesterday to another comment in another post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25672161

This sort of censorship will backfire badly. I won't be surprised if a real Civil War breaks out in America because of suppression of right wing groups by the Big Tech. This division is very real and scary. I shudder to think what sort of ripple effects it will have on 100+ countries where Big Tech operates! If it can nuke the US President's account what chance do other Presidents/Prime Ministers or Governments have?

Please remember that this is not just an action/reaction issue. It is not that simple. There are Second Order Effects at play. You can't even launch a rival platform without first gaining traction. How would you gain traction if the medium for gaining traction is controlled by Big Tech? How do you promote a Twitter alternative if Google, Facebook, Apple and Twitter ban you from their platforms. Can't advertise on Google, can't put your alternative app on Android Play Store or Apple Play Store, can't promote on Twitter. Literally have no choice but to follow the guidelines set by Big Tech and be at the mercy of Big Tech. We are looking at a Big Tech Cartel controlled by left wing ideology. That's precisely what it is today.

So what should the right wing do? Create a right wing Google, Facebook, Twitter, Apple alternative? Are we staring at the balkanization of internet as we know it?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#894

Post by n00bsaretheb3st » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

dghlsakjg wrote: post #447

mlyle wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah. It's like, before the_donald was banned: at least there was a grownup in the room reining it in some and it could be seen. But if you wholesale kick out the extremists, they make their own happy place where there's nothing to slow them down at all. (And then, in turn, you end up playing wack-a-mole with those cesspools, asking Apple/Google to deplatform them, etc.)

The flip side of that coin is that it also makes it harder to recruit people from broader platforms. When the_donald left reddit, it became impossible for them to get their propaganda seen on the front page of reddit and seen by people who might join them. People won't casually stumble into a cesspool of lies and BS. Now they have to know it exists and actively seek it out. I just googled "the donald" and they aren't…

That's because you use google, and vast majority use google... You kick enough people off, guess what their will be a conservative google, people who grew up in conservative households will use the same. What you suggested works when the numbers are small, but when its 50% of the population it's very likely they will make their own ecosystem. Tech giants became monopolies based on good faith...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#895

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

agensaequivocum wrote: post #870

snarf21 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can still use the web interface, right? It is only their app that is violating ToS. I think it would be different in Apple was blocking their DNS.

Apple should probably remove Safari since there's too much unmoderated content on the open web.

[deleted]

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#896

Post by chordalkeyboard » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

ratww wrote: post #511

jimbob45 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If I say, “One equals two”, and you say, “Don’t ever talk to me again, you racist”, then I’m never going to understand the flaws in my thinking and you’re going to wonder why you are unable to convert people to your side.

Nobody is going to call you a racist because you claim that 1=2. If you want to debate in good faith whether people are too quick to call others racist, maybe you should start the debate by enumerating what kind of speech have sparked those claims? Otherwise you're just being hyperbolic and increasing the political divide. I get that people are pissed for being called racist, but if they REALLY wanna fix that, the fi…

> admitting that the other side might be pissed about something too.

I spend most of my mental effort trying to get people on each side to do this, its not easy bro.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#897

Post by chordalkeyboard » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #533

nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

> I find it implausible half the population is dumb Half the population is dumber than average.

depends on how you calculate average. More than half the population could be dumber than the mean intelligence. Intelligence is not a normal distribution, but skewed left.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#898

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

hilyen wrote: post #109

People don’t seem to understand, censorship is a double edged sword. You never know who will be in charge years from now and will abuse those very same good intentioned laws & we end up a police state.

What law? I assume you mean in charge of Apple?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#899

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:53 AM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #233

lovecg wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It would be very dangerous if people in charge, say, prohibited Apple (a private company) from removing Parler. Thankfully, the 1st amendment is still in power and Apple is free to express itself as it sees fit.

You're arguing as if there were no precedent for this, but there already are bounds to how Apple can "express itself". They cannot refuse to serve people of a certain race for example. So are we in a dangerous place now, or should Apple be allowed to exclude people by race?

Which group of people is banned from the App Store though?

If group A can publish an app following the guidelines and group B is banned while adhering to the same guidelines, that’s clearly discrimination of group B.

But if group A and B both are stopped from breaking guidelines equally then how is it discrimination?

Guidelines could be written to be exclusive (no apps can use Swahili!) but that’s not what’s going on here is it? Guidelines are neutral.

People who think there is a ban on Trump supporters or Conservatives must be seeing something I don’t.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#900

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

bebopcowboy wrote: post #364

ENOTTY wrote: post #262

There are a lot of posts on Parler calling for violence, which violate Parler's terms of service. Parler itself doesn't appear to have strategy for moderating these posts. Apple's ultimatum demands Parler implement a plan for enforcing its own terms of service, and reduce the probability that Parler is used to incite violence.

There are a lot of people on Twitter calling for violence, Apple and Twitter don’t care as long as it’s directed at the right people.

Twitter definitely has a moderation strategy and actively is following it. It doesn’t mean it’s 100% but that it’s a good faith attempt to do so. Trying to argue Twitter systematically allows death threats to some people while banning others is an extraordinary claim that you should back up with proof (or remove).