Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#511

Post by ratww » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #486

botwriter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

Agreed. If I say, “One equals two”, and you say, “Don’t ever talk to me again, you racist”, then I’m never going to understand the flaws in my thinking and you’re going to wonder why you are unable to convert people to your side.

Nobody is going to call you a racist because you claim that 1=2.

If you want to debate in good faith whether people are too quick to call others racist, maybe you should start the debate by enumerating what kind of speech have sparked those claims? Otherwise you're just being hyperbolic and increasing the political divide.

I get that people are pissed for being called racist, but if they REALLY wanna fix that, the first step is admitting that the other side might be pissed about something too.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#512

Post by nxc18 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #153

bjtitus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. Well these last two seem pretty par for the course for illegitimate claims been promoted as legitimate. At a certain point the line of absurdity has been crossed at it is not the duty of society to constantly debunk illegitimate claims. > The other side keeps deplatforming them In this particular case, Parler has been host to a num…

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

> I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels

Why do you think this?

Racism was the absolute norm in the US until ~not that long ago. It’s literally written into the constitution and it took literal bloodshed to change that. And then when we did, there was massive pushback in the form of Jim Crow laws.

Statistically you’d expect half of people to be dumber than average. Our (non-higher) education system in the US is nothing to be proud of and wildly inconsistent at best.

Add in politician deliberately lying (e.g. republicans ignoring climate change, republicans denying covid while adjusting their portfolios to take advantage) and stupidity is clearly the norm.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#513

Post by jpttsn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

riwsky wrote: post #452

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

“We just assume we’re right.” That’s just it, though: we assume we’re wrong. We audit ourselves. Watch any of the press conferences where the Georgia election officials detailed the extra work they did. It is that we assume we are wrong for the important things, and double check, triple check, that separates our viewpoints from those being deplatformed.

It can’t possibly work like that, logically. Those being deplatformed are as certain as you are that they are right.

I’ve been disillusioned about this e.g. in trying to have conversations about religion with believers. No matter how much better I think my case is, they will think their case is just as much superior to mine. For every time I double check my books, they double check theirs.

Philosophically, I don’t think that’s a “solution” to the puzzle.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#514

Post by dmitrygr » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

mzs wrote: post #508

>Anyone who buys an Apple phone is apparently a user. Apparently they know what is best for you by telling you which apps you may and may not use. Apparently they believe Parler is responsible for ALL user generated content on Parler. Therefor by the same logic, Apple must be responsible for ALL actions taken by their phones. Every car bomb, every illegal cell phone conversation, every illegal crime committed on an i…

Which part of what he said do you feel is incorrect? Facebook and Twitter indeed are not being held to the same standard. They have a 0% chance of being removed from any app store no matter what. Hell, the whole time Twitter allowed Trump to tweet and gave him a platform, they were threatened with app store delisting precisely 0 times.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#515

Post by dilap » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #23

Suddenly half the population is realizing the cons of centralized platforms. Curious if this moment sparks renewed interest in decentralized tech of yesteryear ie the good ol world wide web.

What good does that do you if the best hardware is locked down and they won't allow decentralized apps, though?

If the web were invented today, there's not a chance in hell Apple would approve a web browser as an app. If you really think about that, I think you'll agree that current app store policies are harmful to innovation and harmful to society as a whole.

At the end of the day, tech can only get you so far. You need to have a broader societal acceptance of a norm of freedom.

The US is trending, quite radically, in the opposite direction.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#516

Post by LetsPlayNice » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:31 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #153

bjtitus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. Well these last two seem pretty par for the course for illegitimate claims been promoted as legitimate. At a certain point the line of absurdity has been crossed at it is not the duty of society to constantly debunk illegitimate claims. > The other side keeps deplatforming them In this particular case, Parler has been host to a num…

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

I appreciate your honesty and I will attempt to explain, briefly, so you might understand better.

1. Most people on the right are against abortion for the reason that it is against their particular religion, which declares it as murder and murder is wrong. But, the others don't care at all about a woman's right to choose, they just don't want their tax dollars paying for that choice instead of other things they want. It really is that simple. As far as the court goes, that is completely different. The saying goes "you can indict a ham sandwich ", and that is largely true. Courts all over the nation entertain frivolous actions on a daily basis, people love this (Judge Judy), but when cases are preliminary dismissed without the "day in court" faith in the court will be quickly lost by those who believed win or lose, it should have been heard. Each person reading this was raised in a time when they were taught every vote counts, your opinion matters, and to stand up for what you believe in while respecting the opinions of others. The opinion of one side is no longer even listened to, let alone respected. How many of you have ever genuinely tried to explain to someone with a different opinion why you disagree with them? I don't see that much anymore. Not everyone with a different opinion is set in their beliefs. Some may welcome your perspective and shift their viewpoint to yours. It's worth a try, right? Apparently not for most. Instead, the right is vilified, insulted, and they believe they are treated differently and unfairly from the left. Their voices are being systematically taken away through deplatforming. They are being stereotyped and lumped into a single category along with extremists. So, the logical conclusion is that if you isolate, disparage, and discourage someone enough, they will become you've now convinced them they are. Multiply that by 70 million. Instead, try talking to people with the goal of explaining your point of view and why you feel that way. It certainly can't hurt more than what's happening now.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#517

Post by zests » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:31 AM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #507

zests wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you decide which of the violent and/or damaging speeches to deplatform? I see nothing done except “use tribalism to decide.”

Exactly what we're doing now. Democracy. The people vote with their wallet.

The mega-corporations that herd people together and use their people herd to sell ad slots are not part of a democracy.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#518

Post by e5india » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:32 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #303

AsyncAwait wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying but the other side of the coin is maybe the society at large is rejecting them. And they need to understand that they're not guaranteed an audience, If the society at large doesn't want to listen then they'll have to sloowly try to win some support. They seem to forget that many on the left fought tooth and nail historically for things we now consider for granted but society wasn't on board f…

If they were a fringe movement I'd be inclined to agree, but they're half the voter base. They can't possibly all be violent bigots.

> They can't possibly all be violent bigots.

And yet Parlor is being de-platformed specifically because it refuses to police the portion of the conservative conversation that is so. It's not because they believe in smaller government or lower taxes.

Conservatism plays this game where it uses this violent rhetoric casually and then acts all surprised when its own members act on that rhetoric. They tell each other that anyone who disagrees with them is an anti-american who want to make this a communist/socialist/fascist state. That voter fraud is rampant and that they will need to overthrow the government with violence. They do this is, in much more graphic detail than I'm using here.

Then, when something violent occurs, we're all just supposed to sit here and pretend like it's just some happenstance and we shouldn't judge them by their own inaction in stamping out the rhetoric from their midst.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#519

Post by jpttsn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:32 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #408

andy_ppp wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the problem is this; I’m not interested in what someone who is dumb enough to storm the Capitol building has to say. And they aren’t interested in having a debate on the facts either, so what are we going to discuss? I don’t get how we can come together and make this better...

Honest question: Who do you consider the smartest Trump supporter? Do you think you have anything to learn from them by engaging in a good faith discussion? My point being maybe you think 95% of MAGA-hats are off their rocker, and Trumpism taken as a whole is grossly misguided. I don't really disagree. But is it possible that there's some core nugget of wisdom to take away. Something, perhaps that your current worldv…

This is an interesting idea. But I bet it would amount (excuse the silly metaphor) to talking to more and more hyenas to figure out where Scar’s true ideology lies. Maybe it’s hyenas all the way down, maybe not. But why would Scar tell you?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#520

Post by FuckButtons » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:35 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

This is backwards - they’ve had a huge unchecked platform in the form of Facebook Twitter et al for the last decade or so and this is the result.