Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#461

Post by jakearmitage » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #366

jakearmitage wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a textbook example of a straw man.

How is it strawman? Those are actual real world actions people commited, because of their opinions. Not even month ago. Ignoring yesterday, there was plan and attempt to execute Mitchigan governor last few months. There was Nashville boombing, likely due to whatever conspiracy theory that man believed. Even Elliot Rodger had opinions largely from incels chans.

Let me use another scenario. 1969, Brazil. Members of a revolutionary group kidnapped the US Ambassador. After that, and a few other incidents, the government used the same argument you presented to review and approve contents of newspapers, magazines, radio shows, movies and correspondence.

Do you believe it is OK to do this, in order to disrupt their planning? Do you believe it becomes not-OK if the target of domestic terror is a tyrannical government?

The very same situation has happened across all of South America throughout the 20th Century.

[1]: https://www.insidehook.com/article/history/kidnapped-why-an-...

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#462

Post by Shivetya » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #13

The cynic in me can't help but notice that all these platforms are suddenly growing a backbone now that we know Democrats will control both the executive and legislative branches.

The cynic in me says, this is why changes or repeal of section 230 is possibly dangerous in that government officials already have the big social media sites under control but don't want any one springing up who is not; control being their definition of what is fake news and such.

Now an interesting consideration, for both supporters and Donald Trump himself. What happens if he is effectively locked out of all the big social media sites? Does a site which lets him on suddenly catapult to the top or does it get shouted down by pressure originating from the users who are on the sites which locked him and his supporters out?

I mean we are in a unique situation where by a very public official is being locked out of his accounts because of his actions and his supporters are being similarly locked out. That has never happened before and its both awe inspiring and frightening all at once.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#463

Post by beaconstudios » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

andybak wrote: post #413

MrZongle2 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There are dangerous extremists on both ends of the spectrum, but God forbid you want to assess the entire landscape in some forums. You're just mocked for being some kind of centrist , as if not being a slobbering partisan is a character flaw.

I'm a centrist by instinct and by UK standards. Unfortunately that would probably put me in the "radical leftist" bracket according to current US discourse.

if a centrist in the UK would be halfway between current Labour and Conservative policies, that would probably make you close to a mainstream Democrat. Labour is left of the Democrats and the Conservatives are right of them (primarily economically), but neither by a huge margin.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#464

Post by stanfordkid » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

It's a self fulfilling prophecy / feedback loop. Censorship creates fear of authoritarianism --> anti-government fears --> kooky crazies supporting trump --> censorship

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#465

Post by crististm » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #270

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You may be reading too much into what I wrote. My standard here is simply that I think if a website is literally organizing something which explicitly, literally, supports violent overthrow of the government, then I'm going to yield to the legal system to enforce whatever laws exist to properly regulate that speech. I don't have a strong opinion beyond that since I am not a lawyer. My point is that if the mechanism t…

Is your standard portable to an arbitrary other country and arbitrary other timeline?

Are there nuances to be observed or the process is applicable regardless of the context in which it is implemented?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#466

Post by silicon2401 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

neogodless wrote: post #114

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/896/censorship > In general, sedition is defined as trying to overthrow the government with intent and means to bring it about; the Supreme Court, however, has been divided over what constitutes intent and means. > These acts made it a federal crime to speak, write, or print criticisms of the government that were false, scandalous, or malicious. It is frightening to me tha…

> My way of trying to only accept what I believe to be accurate information will always be imperfect, and, at times, fail me. But I believe it is only shades different from what someone who believes in election fraud does.

> That's a complex and very human problem that is not readily solved with gut reactions, broad strokes and absolutes.

Sadly, though I feel the same as you, this kind of mindset is a vanishing minority in the US, or so it would seem based on most allowed speech these days. One can daily find entire reddit threads about how one side or another is absolutely unreasonable, and one shouldn't even consider that the other side may have reasons. And this goes for all sides. For those of us who try to remain objective and rational, the only option is increasingly to remain silent or find safe spaces (ironically, from the very crowd that popularized the concept of safe spaces). That's the main reason I started spending more time on HN. I've written before, this is one of the few popular places on the internet where being rational and impartial is common, though even here that seems to slowly be changing.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#467

Post by 0x1F8B » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #376

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

You're not sure what the other options are? You've seen it. Which is worse, censorship of people calling for the violent otherthrow of the democratically elected government. OR what we've seen this week - people literally overthrowing the democratically elected government of the US. Oh and by the way- when the MAGA hat wearers have taken over, sure as hell they aren't going to be defending your right to equivocate be…

> people literally overthrowing the democratically elected government of the US.

The hysterics in this thread are pretty rich.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#468

Post by umvi » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #455

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

> Whatever they call it, this is censorship. By definition it is not. Only governments can censor. This is just a private entity making a decision. You have the right to say what you want, but I don't have to let you into my living room to say it.

> By definition it is not. Only governments can censor

What if we live in a WALL-E type world where corporations are so large and powerful they effectively govern society?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#469

Post by mef » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

citation for the top websites by traffic? (not seeing them here https://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/US)

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#470

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

d1zzy wrote: post #389

proverbialbunny wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's refreshing to hear. I'm not pro manipulative speech (and manipulative news), but in the US free speech is seen as a very strong positive culturally, regardless where you are on the political spectrum.

We'll see if that attitude changes once the US has a one or two ethnic/cultural genocides that was preceded by a lot of hate speech against said ethnic/cultural groups. That is to say, the US attitude towards free speech is not somehow the result of some very wise collective, it simply hasn't had the history to affect its attitude towards it in the same way that European countries have.

We'll see...

Ask a Native American (or one of dozens of other groups whose vilification enabled their oppression and murder), or maybe read a history book? We Americans aren't less experienced than Europeans; we're just more committed.