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Termux no longer updated on Google Play

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Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#341
post #223
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which advantages does Advanced Protection give you in particular so that you have enabled it? It seems that things like hardware 2fA should work without it as well? Genuinely curious.

It forbids 2FA with anything other than U2F hardware, which is practically unphishable. I don't really trust the Google auth system without the hard "disallow all non-hardware-based auth" restriction, due to the innumerable stories about sim swapping, et c.

Fair point! Didn't know there was no other way of enabling this.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#342
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! That is a very big deal!!! Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid, and I try to avoid installing any Apps from other sources, exceptions force upon me by my social circle, like WhatsApp. I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Libre…

> EDIT: I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good. It's always going to be optional. It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar), it's not meant to be for everyone. Disclaimer: No Google affiliation, but I've tested the program a long time ago before it was available to everyone.

> It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar)

Or people with bitcoin wallets, of which I assume there's going to be more and more.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#343
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting people eliminate general purpose computing is the point. That program permits you to say "as of this moment, all the apps that comprise this device's purpose have been installed, and computing should cease being general, and should instead be limited to only those apps (including upgrades)". This isn't something I'd do for my development device, but I can see how it's a desirable policy for some people.

I don't think it's desirable for most people, they just don't realize what they're missing.

1. Most people can't write even Fizzbuzz. How could they possibly realise what they're missing?

2. That feature isn't targeted at most people either, it's for "users with high visibility and sensitive information, who are at risk of targeted online attacks".

AFAICT, turning the feature off is simpler than writing Fizzbuzz.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General-purpose computing protects people from being trapped in a walled garden, from dealing with the monopoly. You bought a phone and you can only ask the vendor to fix and update it, not anyone else. Replace "a phone" with "a car" or "a tractor" [0] and see how ridiculous and anti-consumer it is. The current state results in a huge amount of e-waste instead of encouraging reuse of the smartphones. [0] https://news…

General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated. Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like. The monopoly discussion is a red herring because monopolies are bad regardless of whether those business offer fully customizable software.

"Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like" Where? Linux phones are atm unusable as daily drivers.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no misunderstanding that DRM prevents ecosystem portability, but consumers know about this and consistently buy into them. Just like how they know that Apple iMessage only works with other iPhone users to the chagrin of their Android friends, and still buy into it, sometimes because of the exclusivity. No one registers for an Apple Card thinking it's compatible with Android. "Superior" DRM-free book ecosystem…

> which despite huge antitrust action, Microsoft was allowed to continue bundling and defaulting? > how did iOS ever thrive without Office & Windows integration, lock-ins that Microsoft tried to exploit? You need to go back and reread the history here. I think you have a fundamentally flawed view of how the market works. I'm not sure what else I can say except that markets don't work the way you think they do. That's…

I don't believe perfectly efficient markets exist either and I'm aware of phenomenons like forced arbitration, negative externalities, and consumers voting against their own interests. But you can't start from "the market is imperfect" and then jump to the conclusion that the smartphone market is broken to the point that it requires government intervention. Honestly, it's a little difficult to discuss this when you just vaguely dismiss everything as "you're misunderstanding the history of all the cases you cite". Elaborating on even one example keeps this grounded, although I understand if you don't think it's worth the effort.

I'll take a crack though: the inefficiency/externalities currently present in the smartphone market are well within the capabilities of the market to correct itself. When I say that consumers are getting what they want, I don't mean "the market is literally perfect and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it". Antitrust & government intervention isn't warranted on every market imperfection and risks distorting the efficiency of the market even further because government action is rarely restrained or nuanced. The tech industry traditionally has relatively little intervention and it is littered with similar examples where market obstructions like lock-in or DRM are eventually accounted & corrected for. Yes, there was that big breakup of Ma Bell which held a unique 100-year monopoly, but I don't think any Big Tech is quite comparable to Ma Bell.

And frankly, consumers voting against their interests is a slippery accusation that should require a high burden of proof. Corporate deception can cause this, but beyond that it's your word against the consumer's. I'm not inclined to believe suggestions that consumers would care about X if only they were better informed. Prove it in the market, one could pass a small law that improves labelling or something and see if consumer behavior changes.

> And again, this is not really a valid way to think about market data. Anyway, it doesn't matter because according to your worldview the only thing that matters is what consumers choose, and consumers have clearly overwhelmingly chosen that they want the cheaper phones instead of the flagships.

A little more detail than "you're wrong" would be appreciated. Yes, consumers have overwhelmingly chosen cheaper phones over flagships, but there are multiple groups of consumers with different choices, not all of them are price sensitive. One thing most groups of consumers have in common though is that they don't care much for openness. This is reflected in low legitimate usage of Android's open features, steady bleed from open desktop platforms, and negligible interest in open mobile platforms (including Android-compatible forks).

> The security of the phone is irrelevant, and it doesn't make sense to look at their purchasing decisions as some kind of validation of Apple's security model because they don't care, it is not a factor in their purchasing decisions.

The security of the phone is not irrelevant, I don't know why you think that. There does probably exist a group of consumers for whom the green bubble is the only thing that matters, but that's not everyone or likely even a majority.

If Apple allowed sideloading tomorrow, their purchasing decisions wouldn't change because there is no non-sideloading alternative. Apple is basically the only brand that has such a tightly controlled walled garden. That doesn't mean they don't want it, and forcing Apple to support sideloading takes away a consumer's right to choose to enter a walled garden like that.

> I don't need to be a plumbing expert to know not to take apart my toilet. Nobody needs to be a security expert to know not to flip a switch or mess with default security settings. It's not a complicated system, when I don't know how something works, I just don't mess with it. I'm not going to let you walk away from the fact that you're saying customers are perfectly informed about the tradeoffs of buying into an ecosystem, but too stupid to be taught not to press a single, clearly market button buried in a phone's settings. That is a contradiction.

It's simply wrong to imply that you have to be stupid in order to ignorantly flip off a security switch. The implications of flipping off a security setting is not obvious to laymen and malicious sites will attempt to provide a plausible explanation for why the switch is okay to turn off, an explanation that you need some technical knowledge to debunk. Fortunately, there aren't many motivated liars that are trying to convince you to take plumbing into your own unskilled hands.

Some platforms end up hiding these options deeper & deeper but it's a Sisyphean strategy. Apple has simply taken the option away entirely it which is the least open but most reliable solution.

Teaching them security is also not only incredibly expensive & difficult but also something most normal people don't really want to learn. Shoving elaborate dialogs and explanations in front of them is an effective way to annoy your users (assuming users don't just skip straight past them), or even worse: a skim read that gives your users a false sense of mastery.

> Then why is it a security risk to give them the option? You're arguing that iOS is more secure because it doesn't offer people the option to do something that you don't think they would do.

The majority of Android users not sideloading doesn't mean that it's not a significant security risk, I don't follow this line of reasoning. A majority of users never get seriously breached, even on insecure platforms like Windows, the remaining group of people that did is still quite significant, certainly enough for it to be a serious problem. It would be an unmitigated disaster if a majority of users were at high risk of breaches. An example I remember: it didn't take that many Fortnite players to sideload & spread malware for people to take notice.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated. Yes, it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279 . > Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like. Which phones can I buy to enjoy the freedom of general-purpose computing (and not suffer from non-mature ecosystem)? Which vendors manufacture hardware compatible with FLOSS? > The monopoly discussion is a red herring because m…

> Which phones can I buy to enjoy the freedom of general-purpose computing (and not suffer from non-mature ecosystem)? Does Libram not count? Why do you get to also demand a mature ecosystem? This feels like demanding that corporations build a product specifically because you want it. There are precious few markets where we demand that businesses provide a product that the market wouldn't naturally demand, and I pers…

don't you think this security first approach is bad for our society? If walled golden cages like iOS become the only available option, average users will have an even harder time to get into general purpose computing and programming. Generation iPad doesn't even know what a file system is anymore.

And updating an existing product i own to kill its main function i use for work is outright evil.

It's like your car pushing an update restricting it to only drive on vendor approved roads, because there are some people getting in accidents on poorly maintained dirt roads.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#347
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Bob paid $COST for a phone and it got exploited because of this, Bob may throw his phone out of the nearest window. You and I both know, despite many attempts, there is no hardware or software out there that is unexploitable. From the most locked down chromebook to Apple's walled garden, these devices can and are exploited. The idea that if somehow we take away enough of your freedom we'll make the device safe i…

Just because nothing is completely secure doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to make things as secure as possible.

if we give up a huge part of our freedom as the price, i would say lets not.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#348

Quick note: Google's Advanced Protection program disallows sideloading apps, so you can't install F-droid. Edit: Note that the Advanced Protection program is opt-in for users that require the highest degree of security Google can offer. Regular users won't be impacted by this. Edit: proof https://imgur.com/a/yktPNIc Edit 2: see @haunter's comment for a link to the change announcement

You can sideload apps via ADB. And once an app is installed that way you can then update it normally with an APK going forward. (I have Advanced Protection and I do this.)

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#349

Check out Termius. I've never used Termux so I'm not sure if Termius has the same feature set but it was enough to occasionally ssh in to my machine to attach/detach a gnu screen session to do what i needed. Also see Admin Hands.

From Termius description, it's a completely different app than Termux. Termius is a ssh client, it's purpose is to allow you to connect to a remote computer, whereas Termux is the computer. You can program, compile, run programs, etc... from Termux.

Fair point, but Termius lets you run a local terminal too.
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