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Termux no longer updated on Google Play

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Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#321

Post by londons_explore »

joshuamorton wrote: post #222
londons_explore wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of things that add up...: * Lack of things like w^x enforced across the OS. (the root of this post). * The quality of SoC and OEM provided drivers being very very poor - there are lots of kernel exploits to be found. * Very slow/no updates. Time from an exploit being reported to Google to it being patched by a typical user is usually 6 months or more. That means for any random device you find on the street, t…

It seems like most (all?) of these don't apply to a recent Pixel device. I'd be curious what your bitcoin count would be for a pixel 4 or 5.

Recent pixels probably earn near (but not quite) what an iOS device gets... There's still quite a lot of Qualcomm (and Broadcom) written code on the security-front-line, and I'll be honest I don't really trust it much seeing the massive oversights that previous exploits have discovered...

I suspect the focus of their engineering team is more "hardware guys kludge together driver"... And they probably have to do that because it's only the hardware guys that fully understand all the caveats and workarounds required to not trigger hardware shortcomings...

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#322

Post by higerordermap »

anderspitman wrote: post #287
higerordermap wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of people don't see any value in it, sadly. At least we can hope terminal + tools as separate app bundles approach takes off.

> At least we can hope terminal + tools as separate app bundles approach takes off. But think of all the wasted engineering hours that could have been spent doing something useful, but will instead be spent conforming to Android's draconian security policies. This would all be solved if there was a switch that allowed users to disable W^X protections for specific apps.

Even if it required you to pass a Google interview (exaggerating), malicious actors will find a way to mislead 13yo kids through some youtube video or something.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#323

Post by amelius »

themacguffinman wrote: post #299
amelius wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> General purpose computing is one possible safeguard, it also has pretty big and clear downsides for many consumers and isn't obviously the right choice for most. Yes, but isn't it sad if (say) mom and dad have better hardware at their disposal than people who need general purpose computing for their jobs (e.g. scientists, hackers, ...). Optimizing for the majority is not always a good thing as it can result in bad…

I think it would be sadder if mom and dad had terrible security and lost their savings or treasured memories as a result. Optimizing for one group is always going to cause some problems for a different group, and if I had to choose I'd optimize for the majority every time.

But you're sailing along with a false dichotomy. We can have hardware that is safe for mom and dad, and open for professionals.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#324

Post by yoz-y »

saagarjha wrote: post #198
yoz-y wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, plus the App Store version does not come with apk package manager so in theory all executable code is there. Also they are on a kind of thin ice and already almost have been kicked out: https://ish.app/blog/app-store-removal

The version of iSH on the App Store has shipped with APK for a little while now: https://twitter.com/iSH_app/status/1336770264885948416

Didn't know that! Thanks

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#325

Post by UncleMeat »

fsflover wrote: post #313
UncleMeat wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also completely eliminates general purpose computing. The number of people who want general purpose computing on phones is vanishingly small. And since malware is often indistinguishable from general purpose computing, it can be a reasonable product choice.

" The number of people who want free speech is vanishingly small. And since criticism of government is indistinguishable from hate speech, it can be reasonable to forbid everything potentially dangerous. "

This feels like a ridiculous comparison. Free speech protects people from going to prison. Flexible OS options enable some personal choices with a product. Even if we take a much wider view of free speech (protection from corporate interference), this is still a massive stretch.

Free speech is enshrined in the constitution because, although dangerous, lawmakers generally believe that protecting it is critical to the long term success of the nation (and not every nation even agrees with this). I see no world where exec permissions on arbitrary directories on my phone is critical to the long term success of the nation.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#326

Post by fsflover »

UncleMeat wrote: post #325
fsflover wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The number of people who want free speech is vanishingly small. And since criticism of government is indistinguishable from hate speech, it can be reasonable to forbid everything potentially dangerous. "

This feels like a ridiculous comparison. Free speech protects people from going to prison. Flexible OS options enable some personal choices with a product. Even if we take a much wider view of free speech (protection from corporate interference), this is still a massive stretch. Free speech is enshrined in the constitution because, although dangerous, lawmakers generally believe that protecting it is critical to the…

General-purpose computing protects people from being trapped in a walled garden, from dealing with the monopoly. You bought a phone and you can only ask the vendor to fix and update it, not anyone else. Replace "a phone" with "a car" or "a tractor" [0] and see how ridiculous and anti-consumer it is. The current state results in a huge amount of e-waste instead of encouraging reuse of the smartphones.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22482598

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#327

Post by gnulinux »

pjmlp wrote: post #310
gnulinux wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also amazingly useful and easy to program.

Just like the non-PC vertical integrated platforms were at the time.

I bet it all boils down to what you're familiar with; but on PC if you have a linux distro you can essentially customize your computer exactly the way you want maybe minus some firmware stuff on your hw. I have an android phone and I'm almost always clueless as to how to operate it, sometimes even finding files is hard. It remind me of using Windows, except in my phone.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#328

Post by UncleMeat »

fsflover wrote: post #326
UncleMeat wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a ridiculous comparison. Free speech protects people from going to prison. Flexible OS options enable some personal choices with a product. Even if we take a much wider view of free speech (protection from corporate interference), this is still a massive stretch. Free speech is enshrined in the constitution because, although dangerous, lawmakers generally believe that protecting it is critical to the…

General-purpose computing protects people from being trapped in a walled garden, from dealing with the monopoly. You bought a phone and you can only ask the vendor to fix and update it, not anyone else. Replace "a phone" with "a car" or "a tractor" [0] and see how ridiculous and anti-consumer it is. The current state results in a huge amount of e-waste instead of encouraging reuse of the smartphones. [0] https://news…

General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated. Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like. The monopoly discussion is a red herring because monopolies are bad regardless of whether those business offer fully customizable software.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#329

Post by fsflover »

UncleMeat wrote: post #328
fsflover wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General-purpose computing protects people from being trapped in a walled garden, from dealing with the monopoly. You bought a phone and you can only ask the vendor to fix and update it, not anyone else. Replace "a phone" with "a car" or "a tractor" [0] and see how ridiculous and anti-consumer it is. The current state results in a huge amount of e-waste instead of encouraging reuse of the smartphones. [0] https://news…

General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated. Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like. The monopoly discussion is a red herring because monopolies are bad regardless of whether those business offer fully customizable software.

> General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated.

Yes, it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279.

> Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like.

Which phones can I buy to enjoy the freedom of general-purpose computing (and not suffer from non-mature ecosystem)? Which vendors manufacture hardware compatible with FLOSS?

> The monopoly discussion is a red herring because monopolies are bad regardless of whether those business offer fully customizable software.

If the phone runs free software, it makes it not a monopoly, because I can ask another company to write software for me.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#330

Post by UncleMeat »

fsflover wrote: post #329
UncleMeat wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated. Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like. The monopoly discussion is a red herring because monopolies are bad regardless of whether those business offer fully customizable software.

> General-purpose computing is not being attacked or eliminated. Yes, it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279 . > Hobbyists and specialists can buy products for them if they like. Which phones can I buy to enjoy the freedom of general-purpose computing (and not suffer from non-mature ecosystem)? Which vendors manufacture hardware compatible with FLOSS? > The monopoly discussion is a red herring because m…

> Which phones can I buy to enjoy the freedom of general-purpose computing (and not suffer from non-mature ecosystem)?

Does Libram not count? Why do you get to also demand a mature ecosystem? This feels like demanding that corporations build a product specifically because you want it. There are precious few markets where we demand that businesses provide a product that the market wouldn't naturally demand, and I personally don't think that a general purpose computing phone should be one of those.

This whole discussion also feels a bit disingenuous now that you've brought up FLOSS, since Android has never really satisfied FLOSS-advocate goals. So why would it matter to you if exec privileges are changed?

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