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Termux no longer updated on Google Play

wiki.termux.com

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Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the actual numbers are on malware installed via side-loading and malware installed from the play store. There is no shortage of sketchy apps on the play store. Through my personal bias I would imagine that most people side-loading apps tend to be people using F-Droid who know more or less what they're doing. Although I'm sure there are some people who blindly follow sketch website telling them to instal…

There is "people intentionally side-loading", and "people getting social engineered into installing something they shouldn't".

I think even when you sum those two quantities it'll still be less than the number of people getting hit by apps from the regular play store.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#242
post #4

We have to replicate somehow the PC ecosystem into mobile phones. I'd like PostmarketOS / Manjaro to take off, hope it becomes ready as everyday driver one day.

The PC ecosystem is laughably insecure.

Oh, let's have our entire experience mandated by two companies then.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#243
post #20

The GitHub discussion is significantly more informative and carries a lot of thinking behind the changes: https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 IMO a better link than a short paragraph on Wiki.

Sadly, since January 1st, 2020 Termux team dropped[0] support for Android 5.x/6.x , so actually in F-Droid repo it now requires minimum Android 7.x : > Support for Android 5.x.x - 6.x.x is dropped forever. Time to upgrade your devices or learn how to backport git changes. [1] And this part from Termux devs reply is especially cynical: > ... Time to upgrade your devices... [1] It looks like they has a contract with de…

It is not Termux devs fault that many phone manufacturers fail to handle OS upgrades.

They are not obligated to support them, feel free to support all Android versions at once in your project.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did we move away from flip phones? Like seriously, what are people even arguing here? General purpose computing was a mistake? Is that seriously an argument that anyone is making in good faith as they type into their web browser on an Internet forum? Just wait until you find out that app stores are always going to have fundamentally imperfect moderation. Forget running unsigned/unapproved code, we should get rid…

Lay off implications about bad faith, please. The argument is not that general purpose computing was a mistake, but that general purpose computing is not necessary and is to some extent counterproductive for the majority of consumers. Consumers moved away from flip phones because they wanted more capable phones, that doesn't mean they largely want capability to the extent of general purpose computing. Consumers will…

> Lay off implications about bad faith

You're right, I crossed a line there.

From a market perspective, the problem is that in the short term it might be feasible to build a closed, tightly controlled market that rivals open alternatives, but in the long term general purpose computing acts as a safeguard against market capture and anti-consumer behavior -- and to a certain extent, consumers and markets in general are very bad at optimizing for long-term consequences.

The movement of both iOS and Android in this direction would not be as concerning if they didn't hold a duopoly over the entire smartphone market. Apple in particular has faced significant antitrust criticism in this area.

Open markets that empower consumers (and I mean that generally -- not just general computing but also home cooking, self-publishing, self-repair and hardware DIY) are the reason why closed-down markets don't degrade and become awful over time. Almost every capability on the modern locked-down iPhone started out as a 3rd-party proof of concept that Apple was later forced to offer in-house alternatives to in order to remain competitive.

It benefits even normal users who don't care about general-purpose computing that there be at least one mainstream option on the market where users can fix their own problems without asking a company for permission. And I don't think it's an accident that as Android and iOS have both moved away from that role, that we are now seeing increased calls for antitrust, increased criticisms from developers, and general outright rejection from these companies of new innovations like game streaming.

> Given the unparalleled success of iOS and Apple's locked down ecosystem, it's pretty clear that many find this level of security is very much worth using regardless of imperfect moderation

I do think it's slightly problematic to assume that users are conscious enough of security to make an educated decision to opt into a locked-down platform, but are not educated enough to avoid flipping a switch in the settings that turns that environment off and on. I don't think that users temporarily become security conscious only when they're in the act of purchasing a phone.

The more likely reality is that most users don't think about security or 'openness' at all beyond reputation/advertising, and the vast majority of iPhone users have probably never thought about the tradeoff between open access and security at any point during any of their purchase decisions for any computing device.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#245
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the software we create, Android in this case, isn't oriented at us. Castration in Android is considered a feature, because it makes the average user's phone more reliable.

> it makes the average user's phone more reliable. I would believe that if it was a prime (well described, not difficult to understand, easy to find) option where the user had control. As it is, it is the same as blocking the second level of a house because 'not allowing the residents to climb a stair makes the house safer for them'. At some point, we have to see that feature prioritization on android serves only adv…

> same as blocking the second level of a house because 'not allowing the residents to climb a stair makes the house safer for them'

Exactly what I meant. I liked the comparison.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#246
post #50

Quick note: Google's Advanced Protection program disallows sideloading apps, so you can't install F-droid. Edit: Note that the Advanced Protection program is opt-in for users that require the highest degree of security Google can offer. Regular users won't be impacted by this. Edit: proof https://imgur.com/a/yktPNIc Edit 2: see @haunter's comment for a link to the change announcement

Wow! That is a very big deal!!! Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid, and I try to avoid installing any Apps from other sources, exceptions force upon me by my social circle, like WhatsApp. I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Libre…

> EDIT: I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good.

It's always going to be optional. It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar), it's not meant to be for everyone.

Disclaimer: No Google affiliation, but I've tested the program a long time ago before it was available to everyone.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#247

Quick note: Google's Advanced Protection program disallows sideloading apps, so you can't install F-droid. Edit: Note that the Advanced Protection program is opt-in for users that require the highest degree of security Google can offer. Regular users won't be impacted by this. Edit: proof https://imgur.com/a/yktPNIc Edit 2: see @haunter's comment for a link to the change announcement

I wonder what the actual numbers are on malware installed via side-loading and malware installed from the play store. There is no shortage of sketchy apps on the play store. Through my personal bias I would imagine that most people side-loading apps tend to be people using F-Droid who know more or less what they're doing. Although I'm sure there are some people who blindly follow sketch website telling them to instal…

If side-loading is generally discouraged to the point where it's a hassle, then it's a less attractive entry point for malware authors... so I'd expect the result is that there are ultimately fewer malware instances installed.

If side-loading becomes easy and normalized though...

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#249

TL;DR: Android is trying to enforce all data being either writable, or executable, never both. iOS already does this. There are big security benefits (it becomes much harder to exploit an app). A disadvantage is it becomes much harder to make things like terminal emulators and things that want to download random code and run it. But those are by far the minority of apps, and it seems crazy to make a pretty massive se…

This reminds me of the Harvard architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_architecture Perhaps most familiar to the typical HN reader via Arduinos, and contrasted with von Neumann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture And anyone who has tried to make any kind of interesting general-purpose system on a Harvard design will tell you that it's not really practical.

Arduinos and the like can jump to ram and execute code from it. They simply also have a read-only portion of memory where the code is stored. You can also treat the ROM as memory and use it to store tables, saving you from having to use RAM for them.

Re: Termux no longer updated on Google Play

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the Harvard architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_architecture Perhaps most familiar to the typical HN reader via Arduinos, and contrasted with von Neumann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture And anyone who has tried to make any kind of interesting general-purpose system on a Harvard design will tell you that it's not really practical.

Except for the many CPUs with separate instruction and data caches, i.e. Harvard architecture L1, von Neumann main memory. https://community.arm.com/developer/ip-products/processors/b...

That's not really the same thing though. Those are just different caches of RAM. There's nothing really special about them.
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