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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#851
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Future Shock (or re book Shockwave Rider)

There's too much truth for most of us, so we hide in the comforting illusions of conspiracies and deception. (especially when in some countries, like the US, there's no checks on whether the information shared is accurate or not, and there's a shortage of fact checking even among the professionals....)

Most people do to one extent or another, just it might be wiser to vett them from time to time. It's a way of dealing with overwhelming information.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#852
post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

Good luck finding half the cabinet willing to paint a target on their backs for every furious Trump supporter with a gun.

We may yet find that his cabinet is willing to do so for their own reasons.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#853
post #378
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I don't think we are in that situation at all. I think that everybody - regardless of their politics or candidates of choice - is frequently inundated with the notion that we're very different. But having visited 43 states in the past five years, and making it my business to talk politics and religion everywhere I have gone (especially in the aftermath of the 2016 election), I have repeatedly been surprised by the si…

coming to the thread 5 hours after its posting, and seeing this, the first sensible take (comment #140 or so), in a shade of grey is thoroughly disheartening.

we need more of this on-the-ground reasonableness to overtake the tribal bullshit we're all wading in up to our eyeballs. it's not simply the media (though they in general are complicit), or just politicians (also complicit), or social tech (super-cash-grabbing complicit), or "the people" (most aren't playing that game, but the 'influentials' certainly are). it's power, consolidating and exerting its will, to subjugate people by any means necessary.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#854
post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

You left out a very important part. If the president contests the exercise of the 25th, it gets thrown over to congress, needing a 2/3 majority to become effective. Unlikely. The die-hards will drag it out, until Trump automatically loses the presidency on January 20 and the whole thing becomes moot. Seems like a bit of a waste of time TBH. Even impeachment seems more likely to yield results within the necessary timeframe.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#855

Honest question: does anyone think this would have happened if Twitter and Facebook did not exist?

If Social media and the news media were not around to radicalize and polarize Americans, this would not have happened along with many other events this year :)

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#856
post #692
post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

I don't think that would solve a single thing. All in all, there are much more pressing concerns facing the USA right now than the unimportant fallout from the election, although you'd never know it from turning on the news right now.

A sitting president ignoring election results and inciting a mob to literally attack the Federal government in an attempt to subvert the Constitution is a very pressing issue. It's hard to solve big problems with a government that ceases to abide by its own rules.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#857
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I'm sure in this very long thread some folks believe that those items you list are symptoms of the problem and that the root causes are much more simple. That huge chunk (I'd estimate it at well into the tens of millions of US adults) feels disenfranchised (right now they literally feel that in way in that they believe their vote doesn't count, but also figuratively) because opportunity has been "taken" from them. Ta…

They stormed the capitol because they believe the election was stolen without any evidence or facts with any basis in reality.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#858
post #10

I am shocked and horrified that it is taking so long to clear those who have breached the Capitol. There is more police efficiency and aggression in a run of the mill BLM protest. Edit: for example: https://twitter.com/RedR1dngHood/status/1346908557560537091

BLM took over an entire section of Seattle for weeks.

I like the original better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_General_Strike

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#859

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Here's what I can say from where I sit as someone who did not vote in this election.

For the sake of intellectual honesty, I'll post this on my main account. Strong odds it doesn't go well, but transparency is worth striving for.

I have seen [3,4,5]quite a bit of evidence that there was at least some fraud taking place, and that the evidence of that fraud has been suppressed. Whether the fraud was enough to change results, no clue. I have also seen people attacking the character of everyone presenting or talking about said evidence, rather than addressing the actual content of the claims.

The above is concerning, but it doesn't lead me to believe an election was stolen. However, the narrative that's being played out is that Joe Biden, a 78 year old segregationist who was crucified publicly by his now running mate Kamala Harris for those policies, and who basically didn't campaign or hold rallies, and who has [0]received most of his money from the 'upper class', won nearly 12 Million more votes than Barack Obama in 2008. He did this while [1]winning in substantially fewer counties than Barack Obama.

However, most importantly, the majority of the lawsuits have [2]not been addressed based on their merits but have instead been dismissed based for procedural reasons (e.g. legal standing, injury). As a result, there has not been a transparent process through which the evidence that has been presented has been addressed.

One would expect that these dismissals, and the evidence presented would have become major news. That has not happened, and that leaves people who have seen some of the evidence or who have heard about it feeling concerned.

Now, I'm hesitant to bring up the Hunter Biden story because the media narratives on it are hyper-polarizing. But, many of the claims about the contents are true and some (many?) of the videos and emails have been leaked. This story was smothered by social media, just like the election-related concerns. This has led to a complete eradication of trust in the media as a whole by a huge portion of the population.

- PERSONAL OPINION -

The issue is not what happened, the issue is that we have become divided. Until we have more transparency we will not see people coming back together. There is no way to fix the division until the concerns of both sides can be addressed publicly, transparently, and without media (including social media) interference. Seeing videos of raw footage being marked as misinformation by twitter eradicates whatever trust people had in them.

This election cycle, and the way the media is operating, reminds me of the way we found ourselves in the middle east. Everyone knew([6,7]except our allies) there were WMD's until there weren't.

[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-election-trump-biden...

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/09/fac...

[2] https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/dec/10/donald-trump-... (CTRL+F "lawsuits been disposed")

[3] https://www.clerkofcourt.maricopa.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=1...

[4] DISCLAIMER I am aware of the bias of the individual presenting, but the content is what is important here. https://youtu.be/XH9ihoLi1NA

[5] https://www.youtube.com/user/veritasvisuals

[6] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/03/31/who-lied-to-wh...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#860
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

For one, policing them completely differently?

So sad I have to scroll down this far to see this be acknowledged. Not surprising though
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