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Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

theguardian.com

81–90 of 279 posts

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Tesla did what they were attempting to: dragging everyone to EVs faster. Edit: Would governments be starting to implement new combustion vehicle sales bans without robust charging infra and large quantities of EV deliveries quarter after quarter? Unlikely.

This just sums up how tax payers subsidise EVs and some meme company takes the credit

Sour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#82

This includes hybrids. It's really questionable to incentivize hybrid vehicles and selling it as a electrified success. Discussions about the efficiency/environmental impact/... of combustion v.s. electric aside, it's obvious that driving a huge battery around will burn more fuel. I think this can only be seen as a success for electrified motors if it's proven that they're actually being used.

> Discussions about the efficiency/environmental impact/... of combustion v.s. electric aside, it's obvious that driving a huge battery around will burn more fuel.

I am not sure if I am misunderstanding something here, but did you ever compare fuel statistics of ICE/HEV/PHEV?

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#83

This is almost completely a result of artificial government imposed constraints that make ICE vehicles exceedingly more expensive there. It really has nothing to do with free market choice. A new Tesla Model 3 costs less than a Subaru Outback or Mini Cooper [0]. A VW eGolf also costs less than a base model ICE Golf. [0] https://www.skatteetaten.no/globalassets/tabeller-og-satser/...

Should we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet?

Can we not pretend that electric cars don't pollute the planet?

To be clear, I am a big fan of electric cars. But this seems to have become another one of those things that has become so polarised you're not even allowed to express healthy skepticism.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#84
post #63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know there's not much incentive to buy electric in Sweden, where in Norway they're heavily subsidised. Also, small internet, Hello from Caroli, Malmo! [EDIT: Cars otherwise being heavily taxed and EV's being Tax free, both at purchase time and with annual car taxes (with additional perks such as no parking tolls and driving in bus lanes) is the definition of subsidised]

They are not subsidized in Norway, just exempt from taxes.

> just exempt from taxes

That's a form of subsidy.

> Subsidies come in various forms including: direct (cash grants, interest-free loans) and indirect (tax breaks, insurance, low-interest loans, accelerated depreciation, rent rebates).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK, I suspect my first electric car (in a couple of years) will be the new Škoda based on the same platform as the ID.3: https://www.skoda.co.uk/electric-hybrid-cars/enyaq-iv

Still a huge markup on their petrol equivalents, roughly £14k more expensive. Yes you get a few extra bells and whistles and a small grant to help but that difference still has a ways to go

According to Consumer Reports, electric cars are now cheaper on a Total Cost of Ownership basis than gas cars.

Your mileage may vary depending on what you select as a comparable and some of your assumptions, but you save a lot of money on fuel and maintenance and need to factor that in. The resale value of your vehicle is also a huge factor.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/owning-an-electric-car-...

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#87
post #49

Electric cars still result in Phoenix, AZ. What we need is Amsterdam.

In Norway it’s dark and cold as shit half the year and no flat parts of the towns; Amsterdam is flat and always pleasant or rainy

In Norway it’s dark and cold as shit half the year and no flat parts of the towns;

Perhaps in Tromsø. Oslo certainly doesn't fit that description.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#88
post #54
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a car in Norway or even from abroad has always been very expensive because of the taxes Norway poses on regular cars: > https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-... Electric cars are exempt from these taxes which is why they are so attractive in Norway for customers. Electric cars are also exempt from road fees. Overall, electric cars in Norway are still getting 2.4 billion USD subsidies per…

Are there any suggestions for how to replace lost revenue that would support infrastructure like roads? In the US roads are mostly maintained by taxes on gas. I would think taxing tires might be a decent replacement, but I haven't seen much conversation on the issue.

>In the US roads are mostly maintained by taxes on gas. I would think taxing tires might be a decent replacement, but I haven't seen much conversation on the issue.

Most of the conversation seems to be around taxing mileage or putting up toll roads which IMO are both crap solutions.

Taxing mileage is, is highly regressive because less wealthy people drive tons more (they live farther out from the economic centers and more frequently justify driving farther to access goods more cheaply). However, less wealthy people do not shape public policy in the kinds of states that tend to be willing to try these things out so we'll likely wind up with mileage taxes that result in people in the expensive cities and inner ring suburbs paying the least and they will be able to justify it by pointing out that the less wealthy who live in city apartments and use public transit (which is generally how the more wealthy want the less wealthy to live) pay even less.

Taxing tires is a great idea because it's a naturally progressive tax though still loosely tied to overall use. The poors on their rock hard economy all seasons will pay less than the wealthy on their super sticky and soft summers and winters. Also tire cost scales well with weight of vehicle and the heaviest vehicles do the most damage to roads. That said, I can see a lot of bad 2nd order effects (that fuel tax is mostly immune to) if we start taxing tires so I am highly apprehensive. It would be a great time to own an alignment shop though.

IMO the best solution is to just accept that good transit infrastructure is in everyone's interest and fund roads directly with general tax revenue the same way we fund subways, municipal water/sewer, parks and almost every other piece of infrastructure. The net good of the marginal cost of use being so low that pretty much anyone can use as much as they want with no cost other than opportunity cost has immense benefits to society.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#89
post #68
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know there's not much incentive to buy electric in Sweden, where in Norway they're heavily subsidised. Also, small internet, Hello from Caroli, Malmo! [EDIT: Cars otherwise being heavily taxed and EV's being Tax free, both at purchase time and with annual car taxes (with additional perks such as no parking tolls and driving in bus lanes) is the definition of subsidised]

It's not so much that they are heavily subsidized per se. but rather that IC cars are heavily taxed. A Tesla in Norway costs slightly more than in the US, while an 'equivalent' BMW or Audi can cost ~3 times as much as in the US.

> IC cars are heavily taxed. A Tesla in Norway costs slightly more than in the US

This is a form of subsidy (namely a tax break). Tesla also benefits from subsidies in the US.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#90
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still a huge markup on their petrol equivalents, roughly £14k more expensive. Yes you get a few extra bells and whistles and a small grant to help but that difference still has a ways to go

Surely the fuel cost savings would wipe out the price difference within a couple of years? Not sure what the average price of petrol is where you are though. [Edit[ https://myelectriccar.com.au/calculator/ confirms this at least for a Nissan Leaf running in Australia.

I worked out that based on energy prices and my 12,000 miles per year, I would save about £500-700 per year in fuel in an average EV. Important to remember the 14k difference is based on entry level range and there’s still the issues that charging presents
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