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Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

channelnewsasia.com

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Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#51

Post by kasperni »

coldtea wrote: post #42
kasperni wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying since we collect Some governments... We don't all live in a surveillance state.

You'd be surprised. Where do you leave that's not a surveillance state?

Nordic country. And my point was mainly targeted on "will the government use the data for other non-intended purposes". Instead of whether or not my Internet traffic is monitored by some state actor.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#52

Post by 2038AD »

4ggr0 wrote: post #35
tehlike wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It might be good now, but no guarantees that it will stay that way. Principle of least privilege and data should be the norm but sadly it never is.

And why the focus on governments? Is the same risk not present with private corporations?

Governments can legally kill you

(It's better to say states but the effect is much the same.)

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#53

Post by s3tz »

4ggr0 wrote: post #35
tehlike wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It might be good now, but no guarantees that it will stay that way. Principle of least privilege and data should be the norm but sadly it never is.

And why the focus on governments? Is the same risk not present with private corporations?

The probability you can switch a corporation is much higher.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#54

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #42
kasperni wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying since we collect Some governments... We don't all live in a surveillance state.

You'd be surprised. Where do you leave that's not a surveillance state?

[deleted]

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#55

Post by [deleted] »

malka wrote: post #49
kasperni wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really. It might be good now, but no guarantees that it will stay that way. By that definition there really aren't any entities that you can trust. Including family, friends, etc.

You cannot compare individual, and abstract entities such as states. Humans feel empathy. States (and corporations) only follow interests.

[deleted]

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#56

Post by gonehome »

One thing that drives me crazy about this is that Apple and Google partnered to come up with a brilliant Bluetooth solution to contact tracing right at the beginning of the pandemic.

It was privacy first, well designed, and it works.

It was hamstrung by being opt-in instead of opt-out, relying on state level cooperation and misunderstood by people who didn’t even attempt to try to understand it (including here on HN).

As a result you now see dumber, less effective, less privacy conscious contact tracing in effect or governments relying on data brokers (all the other apps that collect and resell your data to third parties and are not opt-out).

It’s a shame.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/04/apple-and-google-part...

https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#57

Post by slg »

malka wrote: post #49
kasperni wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really. It might be good now, but no guarantees that it will stay that way. By that definition there really aren't any entities that you can trust. Including family, friends, etc.

You cannot compare individual, and abstract entities such as states. Humans feel empathy. States (and corporations) only follow interests.

>Humans feel empathy. States (and corporations) only follow interests.

This is such a bizarre statement to me. States and corporations are made of people. For the states and corporations to lack empathy it means the people controlling them are lacking empathy.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#58

Post by malka »

slg wrote: post #57
malka wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot compare individual, and abstract entities such as states. Humans feel empathy. States (and corporations) only follow interests.

>Humans feel empathy. States (and corporations) only follow interests. This is such a bizarre statement to me. States and corporations are made of people. For the states and corporations to lack empathy it means the people controlling them are lacking empathy.

people without empathy ends up either in prison, or as a top dog.

So yeah, IMO corporations and states are ruled by ruthless people. I do not trust them at all.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#59

Post by TeMPOraL »

coldtea wrote: post #44
jesterson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're missing the point. At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? I am sure it was a genuine answer - that's why I was surprised. Usually those things are sugar covered.

> At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? Technically not a fallacy (as there's no logical fault in what they said). Just falling back on a promise to the public.

Not only that, it's also the counterexample to calling "slippery slope" a fallacy. After all, slippery slope is not a fallacy if the slope is, in fact, slippery.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#60

Post by coldtea »

hagibborim wrote: post #50
coldtea wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? Technically not a fallacy (as there's no logical fault in what they said). Just falling back on a promise to the public.

It's not a logical fallacy, but it's still a fallacy.

You keep using this word "fallacy". I don't think it means what you think it means [1]

(a) a deceptive, misleading, or false notion, belief, etc.: That the world is flat was at one time a popular fallacy.

(b) a misleading or unsound argument.

(c) deceptive, misleading, or false nature; erroneousness.

(d) Logic. any of various types of erroneous reasoning that render arguments logically unsound.

[1] to paraphrase "The Princess Bride"

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