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Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

channelnewsasia.com

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Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#21

Post by code_sloth »

baybal2 wrote: post #14
ekianjo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no progress whatsoever. Economic progress is a thing. https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/singapore/overview > Singapore is a high-income economy with a gross national income of US$54,530 per capita, as of 2017. The country provides one of the world’s most business-friendly regulatory environment for local entrepreneurs and is ranked among the world’s most competitive economies. > In the decades after ind…

Can attest this being not the case, unless you are a bank, and can hire gazillion of local barristers to keep up with frequently changing regulatory theatrics. For example, labour laws are faaar from what people imagine of Singapores ultracapitalist image.

I actually have family there, and they have literally transitioned from near poverty to upper middle class in 2 decades. This was pretty widespreadc, but gradually becoming forgotten as the younger generations grow up in comforts that their precessors never knew.

A lot of this is due to their education system. It can be outright propaganda at times, but it has proven very effective at increasing literacy nation wide.

They've also made internet access an strategic initiative. When you marry a literate population with (generally, wink wink) free access to information and a seemingly draconian government, you get a very interesting bunch of people.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#22

Post by f6v »

jesterson wrote: post #12
ekianjo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no progress whatsoever. Economic progress is a thing. https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/singapore/overview > Singapore is a high-income economy with a gross national income of US$54,530 per capita, as of 2017. The country provides one of the world’s most business-friendly regulatory environment for local entrepreneurs and is ranked among the world’s most competitive economies. > In the decades after ind…

It is, but original commenter was referring to societal progress which I found interesting.

Never been to Singapore, but if there’s really low crime rate and people don’t litter on the streets - I’d call that progress.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#23

Post by read_if_gay_ »

f6v wrote: post #20
iridium_core wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore also has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world, at only 1.16 children per woman. Living in a controlled and apartment-dominated country seems to crush the desire and ability to have many children.

Correlation != causation. I expected HN readers to know that.

GP said it seems, and just because correlation doesn't imply causation doesn't mean everything that correlates literally cannot have a causal relationship.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#24

Post by bigiain »

ignoramous wrote: post #5

Singapore is a surveillance state. Don't be fooled by its corporate friendliness and general societal progress. The government is every bit authoritarian which at this point increasingly looks like a euphemism for totalitarian. https://www.aristeon.net/2019/04/singapore-as-pioneer-of-cap...

> Singapore is a surveillance state.

And the Australian Covid tracing app is a copy/paste from the public open sourced github repo the Singapore government shared.

I guess being part of FiveEyes makes any fantasy of me _not_ living in a surveillance state pretty lame...

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#25

Post by kbar13 »

f6v wrote: post #22
jesterson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but original commenter was referring to societal progress which I found interesting.

Never been to Singapore, but if there’s really low crime rate and people don’t litter on the streets - I’d call that progress.

i dont understand this focus on litter on the streets. yes clean streets is wonderful but i dont rank it anywhere near freedom of speech and social equality or something like standardized healthcare in importance.

my hunch is that "clean streets" is mostly important to those who are not sensitive to social injustice...

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#26

Post by tehlike »

kasperni wrote: post #18
malka wrote: post #15

Surprising. It seems usually a bad idea to trust a government.

That really depends on where you are in the world.

Not really. It might be good now, but no guarantees that it will stay that way. Principle of least privilege and data should be the norm but sadly it never is.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#27

Post by Twisol »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #23
f6v wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation != causation. I expected HN readers to know that.

GP said it seems , and just because correlation doesn't imply causation doesn't mean everything that correlates literally cannot have a causal relationship.

In other words... just because there's a correlation between things being correlated and things not being causally related, that doesn't mean that correlation causally implies acausality?

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#28

Post by jesterson »

f6v wrote: post #22
jesterson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but original commenter was referring to societal progress which I found interesting.

Never been to Singapore, but if there’s really low crime rate and people don’t litter on the streets - I’d call that progress.

If you'd stay here for a while, you'd understand why there is low crime rate and no litter on the street. What even probably surprise you more is why it's happening and what it has to do with progress. Short answer - nothing.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#29

Post by asiando »

bigiain wrote: post #24
ignoramous wrote: post #5

Singapore is a surveillance state. Don't be fooled by its corporate friendliness and general societal progress. The government is every bit authoritarian which at this point increasingly looks like a euphemism for totalitarian. https://www.aristeon.net/2019/04/singapore-as-pioneer-of-cap...

> Singapore is a surveillance state. And the Australian Covid tracing app is a copy/paste from the public open sourced github repo the Singapore government shared. I guess being part of FiveEyes makes any fantasy of me _not_ living in a surveillance state pretty lame...

Having an app per country was unnecessary to begin with. All that Google and Apple had to do is supply the UI and accept government requests to enable the system in their country.

Re: Singapore says contact tracing data may be used for criminal investigations

#30

Post by jesterson »

powerapple wrote: post #16
jesterson wrote: post #13

That was expected from the very beginning. Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying since we collect, we are free to use as we want (citing again some blah-blah about public benefits). What's surprising is that they disclose it. Perhaps he just wasnt prepared for the question

You have some data in the hands of any government, and once you have a judge's approval, the data will be obtained by the authority regardless where you are. It makes sense that the data should be stored on your devices only. If a criminal is caught with his phone, the data can still be obtained by the police (the same as phone records for example), and it can still be useful for criminal investigation, and normal ci…

I believe you're missing the point.

At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here?

I am sure it was a genuine answer - that's why I was surprised. Usually those things are sugar covered.

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