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EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

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Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#51

Post by TeMPOraL »

yulaow wrote: post #28
rapsey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This mindset is born out of seeing how the game is played and where the money goes from past initiatives. Why would this one be in any way different? To quote a very rich and slimey asshole I’ve interacted with who’s income is largely from such initiatives. It’s just money for papers.

Almost any "federal government" branch in any national or transnational entity works that way. They still get results good enough to push technology forward by encouraging parallel private investments. I mean the whole USA tech sector was basically bootstrapped by federal money/grants/investments given in no different way of what EU is doing right now.

And even earlier, in chemical and advanced manufacturing space - just how many of the well-known US companies started as small shops that got their hands on government grants during WWII?

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#52

Post by zhdc1 »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #25
scotty79 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind that at all. Covid requres just one vaccine and a bit of time and disrupts mostly businesses that produce just human powered entertainment (and health services which is the worst thing about it). While making the whole new generation of most important machines and landing beyond current cutting edge seem like both pricey and worthwhile endeavor.

bold to assume any new generation machine will come out of this, meanwhile real business that produced real wealth are closing down.

Why? Europe already produces EUV lithography machines, and while I'm not that familiar with the field, I'm pretty sure ASML and TSMC are already working on 2nm lithography.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#53

Post by wwwwwwwww »

zpeti wrote: post #10

It’s almost become normal now that bureaucrats get to decide which social group to spend money on, or which region to renovate buildings in, but the arrogance of thinking you can spend your way to the most cutting edge of current technology is just the next level of bureaucratic arrogance.

It's always been normal in the EU. There is little innovation here based on private risk taking, almost no venture capital, and huge barrieres for banks to lend money to innovators.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#54

Post by iagovar »

nikivi wrote: post #3

Are there any companies in EU who are developing chips now? I only know ASML but that only makes the wafers. I ask as I can't imagine the government doing this. So there must be some company behind this deal.

NXP, Infineon and STM are the three major in Europe, although STM is Swiss/Italian.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#56

Post by tsimionescu »

xiphias2 wrote: post #43
bayindirh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But of course EU will just waste the money as always. As someone working in HPC and EU projects related to this subject, I don't think they'll waste it. Current HPC and processor push is very real now.

EU’s decreasing GDP share in the world shows that EU is wasting lots of money by trying to pick winners. Just having low tax for small tech companies like in Shanghai would incentivize people to work on new great ideas, but I don’t see it happening.

Technology is always pushed by states, not small companies. Small companies can figure out how to market and reduce costs, but have never successfully created new, advanced technology.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#57

Post by wwwwwwwww »

wongarsu wrote: post #49
zpeti wrote: post #10

It’s almost become normal now that bureaucrats get to decide which social group to spend money on, or which region to renovate buildings in, but the arrogance of thinking you can spend your way to the most cutting edge of current technology is just the next level of bureaucratic arrogance.

The US recently spent their way into a cutting edge private space launch provider industry, and that seems like a roaring success. What makes you think it doesn't work?

Not true.

SpaceX was almost completely privately invested and private risk. Once they had shown that they were serious, NASA awarded them contracts, because it was a great deal for NASA, compared to what they would pay otherwise.

Its sad to see these kind of attempts to trash talk the SpaceX achievements.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#58

Post by jcfrei »

zpeti wrote: post #10

It’s almost become normal now that bureaucrats get to decide which social group to spend money on, or which region to renovate buildings in, but the arrogance of thinking you can spend your way to the most cutting edge of current technology is just the next level of bureaucratic arrogance.

Just like the NASA bureaucrats thought they could make a dent in rocketry - how foolish of them.

Seriously though, some projects are just too expensive and risky for a privately funded venture. That's why public-private partnerships are created - it's always been like this and there doesn't appear to be an alternative.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#59

Post by wwwwwwwww »

simias wrote: post #14
rapsey wrote: post #5

Just a giveaway to the best politically connected companies. Like all such EU initiatives.

Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Of course politics and lobbying will play a role when we're talking about hundreds of billions of euros, but that doesn't mean that it can't end up being a net positive for the union. Ask for transparency and keep tabs, don't assume that it's already lost.

> If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption.

Wrong.

Its not about "doing something", its about doing the right thing. And they don't.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#60

Post by wwwwwwwww »

Guthur wrote: post #55
rapsey wrote: post #5

Just a giveaway to the best politically connected companies. Like all such EU initiatives.

Are you a citizen of the EU to even care?

Do you do nationaly checks before allowing people to have an opinion?
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