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EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

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Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#21

Post by rapsey »

simias wrote: post #14
rapsey wrote: post #5

Just a giveaway to the best politically connected companies. Like all such EU initiatives.

Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Of course politics and lobbying will play a role when we're talking about hundreds of billions of euros, but that doesn't mean that it can't end up being a net positive for the union. Ask for transparency and keep tabs, don't assume that it's already lost.

This mindset is born out of seeing how the game is played and where the money goes from past initiatives. Why would this one be in any way different?

To quote a very rich and slimey asshole I’ve interacted with who’s income is largely from such initiatives. It’s just money for papers.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#22

Post by zhdc1 »

jononor wrote: post #4

Article says this is for 2-3 years? Seems crazy. Semi-conductor R&D is something where I would expect commitments to be 10 years or more, not just a couple of years...

The funding is only for two years, and it looks like this is an extension to an initiative that started in 2018.

I don't think they expect to build a 2nm fab by 2023.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#23

Post by scotty79 »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #8

2nm tech, and not only just the tech, but the whole fab for it in two-three years? that how eu is spending 145 billions while allocating 1bn to fighting covid?

I don't mind that at all.

Covid requres just one vaccine and a bit of time and disrupts mostly businesses that produce just human powered entertainment (and health services which is the worst thing about it).

While making the whole new generation of most important machines and landing beyond current cutting edge seem like both pricey and worthwhile endeavor.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#24

Post by farseer »

nikivi wrote: post #3

Are there any companies in EU who are developing chips now? I only know ASML but that only makes the wafers. I ask as I can't imagine the government doing this. So there must be some company behind this deal.

ASML makes the equipment to etch on wafers. The best in the world I believe. ASML has thousands of suppliers in the EU.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#25

Post by LoSboccacc »

scotty79 wrote: post #23
LoSboccacc wrote: post #8

2nm tech, and not only just the tech, but the whole fab for it in two-three years? that how eu is spending 145 billions while allocating 1bn to fighting covid?

I don't mind that at all. Covid requres just one vaccine and a bit of time and disrupts mostly businesses that produce just human powered entertainment (and health services which is the worst thing about it). While making the whole new generation of most important machines and landing beyond current cutting edge seem like both pricey and worthwhile endeavor.

bold to assume any new generation machine will come out of this, meanwhile real business that produced real wealth are closing down.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#26

Post by mkl »

nikivi wrote: post #3

Are there any companies in EU who are developing chips now? I only know ASML but that only makes the wafers. I ask as I can't imagine the government doing this. So there must be some company behind this deal.

ASML makes photolithography machines, including the EUV machines TSMC will be using for 3nm chips.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#27

Post by varjag »

rapsey wrote: post #18
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #13

ITT bashing on EU without understanding it I believe the 17 signing nations are allowed to inject money into their own economy. Even if the goals are a bit unrealistic. EDIT The 2-3 years is when the funds are allocated. Not when the results are expected.

Because somehow this initiative is different from all the other ones?

Which other ones you mean?

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#28

Post by yulaow »

rapsey wrote: post #21
simias wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Of course politics and lobbying will play a role when we're talking about hundreds of billions of euros, but that doesn't mean that it can't end up being a net positive for the union. Ask for transparency and keep tabs, don't assume that it's already lost.

This mindset is born out of seeing how the game is played and where the money goes from past initiatives. Why would this one be in any way different? To quote a very rich and slimey asshole I’ve interacted with who’s income is largely from such initiatives. It’s just money for papers.

Almost any "federal government" branch in any national or transnational entity works that way. They still get results good enough to push technology forward by encouraging parallel private investments.

I mean the whole USA tech sector was basically bootstrapped by federal money/grants/investments given in no different way of what EU is doing right now.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#29

Post by rhn_mk1 »

rapsey wrote: post #21
simias wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Of course politics and lobbying will play a role when we're talking about hundreds of billions of euros, but that doesn't mean that it can't end up being a net positive for the union. Ask for transparency and keep tabs, don't assume that it's already lost.

This mindset is born out of seeing how the game is played and where the money goes from past initiatives. Why would this one be in any way different? To quote a very rich and slimey asshole I’ve interacted with who’s income is largely from such initiatives. It’s just money for papers.

Why don't you instead quote a source that proves that it's a pointless giveaway? Without it, your post seems like mud slinging.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#30

Post by baxtr »

simias wrote: post #14
rapsey wrote: post #5

Just a giveaway to the best politically connected companies. Like all such EU initiatives.

Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Of course politics and lobbying will play a role when we're talking about hundreds of billions of euros, but that doesn't mean that it can't end up being a net positive for the union. Ask for transparency and keep tabs, don't assume that it's already lost.

Can you name examples of EU initiatives on that level that delivered the desired results?

EDIT: I am asking because I seriously want to know. I haven’t made up my mind yet what to think about the whole thing. I am not familiar with successful EU initiatives. I’m open in believing this can work if there were successful examples in the past.

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