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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#781

Post by staunch »

valuearb wrote: post #552
staunch wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ban outsourcing to countries with poor labor laws? The commonly stated purpose of the U.S. outsourcing to China was to 1. help lift it out of poverty and 2. bring it democracy through capitalism. Goal #1 has been largely achieved and Goal #2 has been an epic failure. The U.S. should completely phase out outsourcing to China over the next decade. This would drive a huge acceleration of automated manufactu…

Sounds like a great way to crush third world countries deeper into poverty. I love it!

So, you're in favor of maintaining slave labor as long as possible? Got it!

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#782

Post by Cyberthal »

dmingod666 wrote: post #775
Cyberthal wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say arming slaves was good. I said it was the only effective long-term solution to the problem of liberating slaves. The consensus here is anti-slavery, so I accepted that premise. The USA does permit minimum wage workers to purchase cheap pistols, which is probably why its police aren't brave enough to lock them down. Sometimes those workers even upset a predetermined election. I do not support prisons. On…

I'm not Chinese.. sorry if I was too rude... Agree that slavery is just hidden now and called by a different name.. it's sad, America with it's literally unlimited resources can do much better for it's own citizens, but it's too divided on class and uses race problems to divert attention from the real problem that the lower classes are screwed over in every possible way.. I think if the politicians there were a littl…

No problem. Regarding realness, you might want to compare the number of years it takes to move between socioeconomic classes in America versus the number of years it takes to evolve a distinct race of humans.

Unity is a fine sentiment. Lions are unanimously in favor of lions laying down with lambs. If it hasn't worked yet, that only shows the weakness of our faith. Give until it hurts! Thank you Jesus!

Sorry, I was channeling a televangelist there. I don't know what possessed me.

https://brewminate.com/divide-et-impera-a-history-of-divide-...

What bothers me is there are so many fun immigration combinations that never get any press. Where's the lobby for unlimited Chinese immigration into Japan? Can you imagine the Godzilla movies we'd get out of that? What has Japan done for us lately, besides Dark Souls? A new national trauma is just the thing to refresh that fatalistic warrior muse.

If the Chinese and Japanese can't coexist, despite belonging to the same race and often being mutually indistinguishable, then who can?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#783

Post by Alupis »

coldtea wrote: post #680
Alupis wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The US doesn't need to be perfect before US citizens can decry Religious Slave Labor Camps in China > Oh, yes, it does. Surely not perfect, but much better, or at least not as bad. The country that was founded on the principal of religious freedom, by people that fled religious persecution, and felt so strongly as to list religious freedom as item number one in their list of human rights, does not need to be "much…

> The country that was founded on the principal of religious freedom, by people that fled religious persecution, and felt so strongly as to list religious freedom as item number one in their list of human rights, does not need to be "much better" to call out religious slave labor camps. "The country that founded on the principal of religious freedom" is nationalistic trite, like "land of the free" (which ended slaver…

So effectively you are arguing that since the US did bad things in the past, China should be allowed to imprison millions based on their religion alone?

How does this add up?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#784

Post by ksk »

esarbe wrote: post #590
ksk wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US peoples voted into power a President who pardons war criminals. And the next incoming President supports (or has supported in the past) wars and bombings which cost the lives of countless non-combatants. Which places has China bombed? If the claim is China has lots its moral standing, then The US is not on any firmer moral ground either.

Yeah, you won't see me grandstanding for the U.S. The U.S. has plenty of issues. But we were talking about China, not the U.S. By the way, why the U.S.? Why not Lichtenstein or Denmark?

Well, those countries are not global powers, yet. Quite a bit of the China bashing comes from the US, and that's why I brought it up. If we judge the US and a lot of the other so called world leaders by the same standard as we judge China, things don't look so rosy anymore.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#785

Post by monocasa »

esarbe wrote: post #743
monocasa wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also true of Australia which has had instant runoff voting for nearly a century. I would suggest you look at the actual examples in the wild, and see if they have FPTP (or party proportional representation, which is essentially FPTP with all the same spoiler effects), and which don't, and see if they match your expectations to any degree better than random chance. You can prove just about anything in "math"…

> Which is also true of Australia [...] No, not really. If you look at Australia's parliament, you'll see that even though Labor and Liberal are the biggest party, they 'only' make up 60% of the seats. That's not really good, but it's a far cry from Canada's 82% (or the US's 99%) > I would suggest you look at the actual examples in the wild That's a very good suggestion. I actually already did that and I can assure y…

> No, not really. If you look at Australia's parliament, you'll see that even though Labor and Liberal are the biggest party, they 'only' make up 60% of the seats. That's not really good, but it's a far cry from Canada's 82% (or the US's 99%)

I'm not sure how you came to that. Australia has 151 MPs, 68 in the liberal party, and 61 in labor, or 86% in the two major parties. Their senate has 76 members, 31 liberal, 26 labor, or exactly 75% in the two major parties.

> Do you mean 'against FPTP'? Because I can assure you that I'm not pushing for FPTP at all.

Yes, I misspoke there, as is clear from the rest of my argument.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#786

Post by dang »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #517
quasse wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the republic of China has never been more autocratic This is a more nuanced issue than it might seem in some ways though. I have some first hand experience since many of my coworkers are native Chinese living in different parts of China. Trade has enabled the growth of a previously non-existent middle class in China and they have started to assert political power in ways not immediately apparent to Westerners. One…

What's with illegal migrants and US? You're from Europe like me do you even realize we dump them to remote islands to live in shitty camps and illegal immigration is not tolerated anywhere in Europe? Are you clueless or intellectually dishonest? Either way it doesn't look good.

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. That would include using the site for intellectual curiosity rather than flamewar or political battle, avoiding personal attacks, and everything else that's here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#787

Post by dang »

echelon wrote: post #275
barnacled wrote: post #229

And yet Tim Cook has the cheek to get 'woke'. Apple could easily afford to build everything in a country that isn't an awful dictatorship running concentration camps and still earn obscene profits. And yet they still somehow maintain this aura of being the 'good guys'...

If you buy an iPhone, you're complicit in human slavery. Period. Don't even try to explain yourself out of it.

Would you please stop taking HN threads further into flamewar? Posts like this break many of the site guidelines. Consider this one to begin with:

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#788

Post by valuearb »

staunch wrote: post #781
valuearb wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great way to crush third world countries deeper into poverty. I love it!

So, you're in favor of maintaining slave labor as long as possible? Got it!

Your apparently in favor of making it permanent. Jobs like the ones Apple provides in China are a huge part of lifting their workers out of poverty.

Without globalization those same workers would be back on the farms going brutal manual labor for far less pay.

Do you really care about third world workers, or do you care more about virtue signaling devotion to long discredited political concepts?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#789

Post by mlindner »

mgh2 wrote: post #740
philwelch wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d really be curious to see how far we could push this. Cobalt is an essential part of lithium-ion batteries. 70% of the world’s cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, much of it in forced conditions. So I guess we have three options: go without lithium-ion batteries, enforce a minimum standard of labor conditions in the DRC by any means necessary, or just try not to think about it too much. Is it…

Again, I don’t think people understand the difference here and are trying to derail the argument in favour of Apple. Being “forced to seek employment out of poverty” is different than being forced to labor due to your ethnic background. Necessity vs. discrimination. Ex: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global-devel... It is a very simple and clear difference, yet it is a common tactic for a debater to…

You linked to Google instead of the guardian.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#790

Post by onethought »

esarbe wrote: post #769
onethought wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple is a US company... lots of US companies take advantage of (domestic) prison labour. How is the US not part of this discussion???

This is fun! Apple is a U.S. Company Lots of U.S. companies take advantage of (domestic) prison labour. Domestic prison labour is responsible for mental health problems. Mental health problems are treated by psychiatrists. How are psychiatrists not part of this discussion???

Sure if you want to derail it. But the Actual post is about an American company taking advantage of essentially Chinese prison labour.

You think drawing a parallel to American companies taking advantage of American prison labour is unrelated to this discussion preferring to focus on the race of the 'prison labour' rather than the nature of the labour.

What ever helps you sleep at night ;)

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