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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#321
post #95
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but - not being able to conduct its investigation doesn't automatically cause China to be in the wrong. More evidence is needed here. (Independent review being disallowed nationally is a bigger concern I will admit)

In cases like there were actually investigating can land the people doing the investigating in prison, I think proceed according to the cautionary principle. So, if a tyrannical dictatorship like China is accused of abusing human rights and said tyrannical dictatorship is not willing to let people investigate the claims, we can accept the accusations as true until aforementioned tyrannical dictatorship is willing to…

> tyrannical dictatorship

I honestly think that's a bit too far.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#322

And yet Tim Cook has the cheek to get 'woke'. Apple could easily afford to build everything in a country that isn't an awful dictatorship running concentration camps and still earn obscene profits. And yet they still somehow maintain this aura of being the 'good guys'...

If you buy an iPhone, you're complicit in human slavery. Period. Don't even try to explain yourself out of it.

I don't get the downvotes on this. Well, okay, I do, but it's not wrong. It's hard to buy anything without supporting odious practices somewhere in the supply chain. The incentive is to get costs as low as possible, and globalism let's companies put all the bad stuff far enough away that the consumers don't care.

I understand if you still want to buy smartphones--I'm typing this one one--but do it with h your eyes open. "Because it's a buzzkill" is not a good reason to ignore it. And if it bothers you, we should do something about it, like lobbying politicians, supporting labor unions, and raising awareness.

Well, I guess that last one will just get you downvotes

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#324
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead of quietly consuming the products The problem is the propertied capitalist class , not the working class. The capitalist class has the power. I appreciate your intention, yet it's super important to be clear that the problem is the bourgeoisie and the capitalist system, as the means of production are monopolized in their hands. The most advanced form through which the bourgeoisie (in this case Apple) exprop…

As an anti-capitalist, does it give you pause for thought that the Campaign for Accountability, which is behind this report, was co-founded by Louis Mayberg, the principal in a large investment management company.

If everyone's accountable, the world's a better place for everyone (except perhaps the people committing flagrantly unethical crimes). You don't need to be a staunch anti-capitalist to see that. And hey, if you've got money, maybe you can do something about it.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#325
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This also seems to describe prison labor that occurs in the US, which [...] is definitely different from slavery Did you sleep though civics class? Go read the thirteenth amendment.

Please don't do that here. From the guidelines: > Don't be snarky. > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Run tell dang. Maybe he'll wake up and do something about the blatant CCP shills (I doubt it) after giving me a scolding for telling him (and you) to fuck off.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please list smartphones i can buy that have no suppliers with any history of human rights issues thank you

https://www.fairphone.com/ https://www.pine64.org/ , to my knowledge.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of Fairphone. Here's their supplier list btw, in case anyone wants to check out:

https://www.fairphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/016_005...

Still seems to be mostly China (48 out of 65), but the fact they make it public is highly commendable.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#327
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's supply chain is more than 1,000 companies. Do you really think Apple has the expertise and personnel to replicate what 1,000 companies have spent decades mastering? Not likely. No company on earth has ever been able to make a smartphone entirely themselves, and no company ever will, although i'd like to be proven wrong.

> Apple's supply chain is more than 1,000 companies. Do you really think Apple has the expertise and personnel to replicate what 1,000 companies have spent decades mastering? Not likely. As one of the richest corporations on the planet which always smugly tells everyone how nice they are and how much they respect people? Yes, fuck yes. They're not a mom and pop shop. They're a corporation that finds millions to lobby…

One of the reasons Jobs cited as being an important factor for locating in China is the availability of skilled labor. It would have taken them years to hire enough industrial engineers to handle the scope and scale and volume that the iPhone required in the US, if they could even manage it at all, but only weeks to do so in China.

The supply chain is also important. One person who worked in Shenzhen commented that, as a manufacturer, if you suddenly discover you need a certain kind or size or shape or length of screw, you can have a shipment at your door the same day, because the factory that produces a thousand different kinds of screws is just down the road.

To move to the US, they'd either have to replicate most of that manufacturing in the US, which would take decades and be extremely expensive, or deal with a week of latency every time they need a new or different part as they get it shipped from China anyway, making most of this process moot.

Yes, Apple should do something about this issue, and yes it's horrible to imagine them profiting off this with their "nice guy" image, but keep in mind that if they did this and increased the cost of the iPhone, other companies wouldn't, and it would put Apple at a huge disadvantage.

One thing we've seen over the last century of western civilization is that cheaper wins over better. Cheaper toasters that don't last, cheaper fridges that break down after their three-year warranty is up, cheaper laptops that come infected with bloatware and adware. If Apple refused to manufacture in China because of forced labour issues, then they'd lose out on sales to companies who kept benefitting from it, because consumers, as a whole, just don't give a shit.

I mean, if anyone cared about what it takes to provide them with cheap products, they'd be enraged that Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world even though the workers that run his company are subsisting on food stamps and burnout quotas.

That said, Apple is working on moving production to India, and I'd wager that the more they can do that and expand their operations there, the less and less they'll deal with China for manufacturing, but right now no one who manufactures electronics in large volumes can do so without involving China.

In the meantime, they can work on cutting this supplier out of their supply chain; the article is talking about only one of their suppliers, though a long-term supplier, and not actually people working for Apple or manufacturing iPhones directly, so hopefully they can draw a line in the sand and force Lens to either stop using forced labour or lose the contracts.

Fingers crossed.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#328
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's supply chain is more than 1,000 companies. Do you really think Apple has the expertise and personnel to replicate what 1,000 companies have spent decades mastering? Not likely. No company on earth has ever been able to make a smartphone entirely themselves, and no company ever will, although i'd like to be proven wrong.

> Apple's supply chain is more than 1,000 companies. Do you really think Apple has the expertise and personnel to replicate what 1,000 companies have spent decades mastering? Not likely. As one of the richest corporations on the planet which always smugly tells everyone how nice they are and how much they respect people? Yes, fuck yes. They're not a mom and pop shop. They're a corporation that finds millions to lobby…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would “invalidating stocks” even mean?

Here, invalidate stock shares

Yeah, but what does it mean? To revoke ownership of the company from its owners? Who then gets to own the company and why?

Or does it mean the company should cease to exist, and all employees should be fired immediately? We should deny honest people from getting their salaries?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#330
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an influencer to do? Switch to Android, like poor people? Nobody who matters is going to boycott Apple. Apple will counter with a plausible narrative, "we didn't know, we cancelled contracts, ..." and everything will be fine again. Oh, and a new woke diversity ad to show how much they care about muslims. And everybody will share and clap and feel good.

You're right, and that's why governments must step in. Markets are not configured or incentivized to address ills like this, nor are corporations. Asking a corporation to right large scale social wrongs is like asking the DMV to operate your military or walking into a restaurant and asking them to come fix your roof. It's just the wrong socioeconomic tool for the job. If you try to really pressure or force them to do…

Boycott is a fine tool if we're talking about influencing the corner grocery store in a town of 100 people. You might actually put a dent in their business and cause them to change whatever you're boycotting about. On the other hand, boycotts are totally pointless vs GlobalUltraMegaCorps. If everyone on HN stopped buying from these massive companies, it wouldn't even be noticed. Apple sells roughly 200 million iPhones yearly. Do you think it's possible to get even 1% of those customers to act on a boycott?
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