Interview advice that got me offers • Hacker News Board

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#341

Post by happythought » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

cloverich wrote: post #257

dodobirdlord wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many interviewers do cargo-cult whiteboard interviews, but the core intention of the archetypical whiteboard interview is to spring a complex question on the candidate that they have never seen before and observe how the candidate thinks. If the interviewer is asking questions that the candidate knows the answer to the interviewer is literally doing it wrong. It's not a trivia challenge, and the interviewer…

Once you "memorize" a core set of data structures and algorithms, you can apply them to a variety of "novel" problems. The issue is those technique that are memorized, that become useful in solving these problems, aren't intuitive, despite their deceptive simplicity. In reality there's little memorization of solutions, and much memorization of useful techniques (data structures, algorithmic techniques) that are usefu…

Your comment made me feel better about myself, thanks.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#342

Post by chillacy » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

cloverich wrote: post #257

dodobirdlord wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many interviewers do cargo-cult whiteboard interviews, but the core intention of the archetypical whiteboard interview is to spring a complex question on the candidate that they have never seen before and observe how the candidate thinks. If the interviewer is asking questions that the candidate knows the answer to the interviewer is literally doing it wrong. It's not a trivia challenge, and the interviewer…

Once you "memorize" a core set of data structures and algorithms, you can apply them to a variety of "novel" problems. The issue is those technique that are memorized, that become useful in solving these problems, aren't intuitive, despite their deceptive simplicity. In reality there's little memorization of solutions, and much memorization of useful techniques (data structures, algorithmic techniques) that are usefu…

5 years ago the fast/slow pointer technique for cycle detection could have been impossibly hard, now I see questions that just assume the candidate knows this. Every year the bar gets higher.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#343

Post by tjalfi » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 8:57 PM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #272

dcolkitt wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that industrial psychology has consistently found that fluid intelligence is the best predictor of job performance. Even more so than experience.[0] Whiteboard interviews are used, not because they have a lot of relevance to the job, but because they're a hard-to-fake indicator of high intelligence. Somebody who shows a lot of mental fluidity with complex data structures, almost assuredly can quickly m…

If fluid intelligence was truly perceived as the most important thing, then people would just skip the coding entirely and try to directly measure fluid intelligence. There are companies more than happy to run IQ tests and the like to screen candidates. Probably a lot cheaper than the current hiring processes. The fact that they aren't trying that, and are instead attempting to get a measure of coding ability, sugges…

It's a lot easier to demonstrate the business necessity of a whiteboard test than IQ tests.

Administering an IQ test would be legally risky and could have a disparate impact on protected classes.

Griggs v. Duke Power Co.[0] is the Supreme Court case on this topic.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#344

Post by Answerawake » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

friendlybus wrote: post #301

ornornor wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He took me and my boss for a ride financially. What do you mean? Either you got a bad deal being underpaid which means your boss got a good deal, or you’re getting paid a lot and your boss got a bad deal but you got a good one. How can you both be losing?

Boss overpaid, recruiter took a bigger cut

exactly

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#345

Post by tobinfricke » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

vincentmarle wrote: post #9

The hardest part about interviewing is that there is no feedback loop; I once interviewed at 10 companies within 2 weeks and got rejected from all of them, but to this day I still don't know what part I need to improve upon.

> The hardest part about interviewing is that there is no feedback loop;

I've had good results simply asking the recruiter for feedback. Typically they are able to give me some insight into the process that I wouldn't have been able to guess. In "no offer" situations, it's often "the hiring manager was looking for someone with more experience in X" or something like that. This works best over the phone, since they are apt to tell you more than they would be willing to put into writing.

For that matter, the recruiter is often an underutilized resource before the interview too. There's no rule that the nature of interview questions need be a complete surprise. The recruiter is often able to shed light on who will ask what sort of questions, which can be reassuring and narrow down what you might review before the interview.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#346

Post by oblio » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

tharkun__ wrote: post #252

deathanatos wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd actually recommend the opposite. I want them to come in above my current salary — simply hitting my salary means their deal is basically the same as my current deal, plus a bunch of unknowns around the work, the environment, the company. If I'm going to switch companies, it should advantage me to do so. (And IME, if you give exactly the salary, they'll come in as little above it as possible. I am naming what I wa…

Well the thing is that if they name a number first they will assess whether you'd go for the 100 even if they would top out at 150 and then just offer you the 100 or say 110 or something. This will set the "tone" and the base number for negotiation. Your mind will be thinking "he said 110, so I guess they might go to 120" so you'll maybe ask for 130 and accept the 120 they offer you next. Queue up yourself asking for…

They don't need to know your current salary.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#347

Post by Answerawake » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

AYBABTME wrote: post #294

Answerawake wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you end up with a network of the good ones? I have gotten my last job through a recruiter but the process sucked. He took me and my boss for a ride financially. This was in part me not getting many callbacks from any decent companies(Im in the NJ/NYC area) so I was desperate to accept and part my current manager not knowing what he should be paying for this and that type of developer. While I love my job and m…

You can reach out to companies that interest you directly, using their career page, finding people who work there and contacting them (LinkedIn, or via Twitter but preferably through an introduction), or some combination of both. You'll usually get a message back if your online presence shows some sort of proof of skills.

Have you found a job using this approach? I just think that if I were on the receiving end, i'd be a bit creeped out if there wasn't an introduction. How would I get an introduction? Thanks for the unique tip though.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#348

Post by Answerawake » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

mkane848 wrote: post #339

Answerawake wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you end up with a network of the good ones? I have gotten my last job through a recruiter but the process sucked. He took me and my boss for a ride financially. This was in part me not getting many callbacks from any decent companies(Im in the NJ/NYC area) so I was desperate to accept and part my current manager not knowing what he should be paying for this and that type of developer. While I love my job and m…

Fellow NJ programmer here - have you had much luck finding stuff in Central Jersey? Red Bank to Toms River sorta area. I'm currently working in Red Bank and have been having a hell of a time finding places that don't seem miserable or just short contract work that I'm not interested in lol

Sorry I've been off the market for 2 years now. Holding onto my job and super easygoing boss for dear life. I found by it pure luck and its at a boring company that does nothing innovative but the pay is good and there is no stress. I wish you luck in your search.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#349

Post by Answerawake » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

jlj wrote: post #265

Answerawake wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you end up with a network of the good ones? I have gotten my last job through a recruiter but the process sucked. He took me and my boss for a ride financially. This was in part me not getting many callbacks from any decent companies(Im in the NJ/NYC area) so I was desperate to accept and part my current manager not knowing what he should be paying for this and that type of developer. While I love my job and m…

> How do you end up with a network of the good ones? > I have wanted to escape the dreaded cycle of dealing with these terrible recruiters Focus on yourself. When you are in a good place yourself you will find non-terrible recruiters. And when recruiters reach out, have a copy/paste response to say thanks for reaching out. +1 bonus points if you have a friend looking for a job and you can share their LinkedIn profile…

Its not like I don't focus on improving myself. Who doesn't focus on improving themselves in this industry? You have to keep improving or else you are finished at some point. Imagine a circle of the stimulating inspiring well paid jobs and another circle filled with the painful, boring non noteworthy jobs. The circles don't overlap. Somehow through connections, impressing that one higher up or being in the right place at the right time, some can jump into the good circle and never have to look back while everyone else is stuck. That does not mean all the people in the bad circle are bad developers. I have seen with my own two eyes a lot of brilliance(I know its just my word so you'll just have to believe me) but they are still stuck in that bad circle.

I love this inspiring response but someone who is on the outside trying to claw their way in cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I guess its a self fulfilling prophecy, don't run away and there is a chance in the distant future you jump into that other circle but if you don't try you have exhausted any chance. But what if you spend all that effort trying never do? What have you sacrificed in order to end up failing to get into that other circle?

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#350

Post by baby » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

angarg12 wrote: post #169

> When you're in a real interview the world changes: You're locked in a cage with a lion. I got into interviewing this last year as an interviewer. I used to think (as most people do) that the interview is a confrontation between interviewer and candidate. However my biggest breakthrough happened when I changed my perspective. Now I see interviewers as detectives, gathering evidence of whether the candidate would be…

Not all interviewers are like this unfortunately, many are elitist and only trying to find flaws in your way of thinking and approach.