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Interview advice that got me offers

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Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#251

Post by bawolff »

jt2190 wrote: post #241
nzmsv wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the sooner you get to the top of your budgeted salary the more years you spend collecting it. Collecting a higher salary for longer makes you more money.

Ah I see! The assumption is that the candidate is already worth the top of the pay range for the position. In that case, should they be aiming for a higher position? Should there be room to grow in the position?

The original poster said if they negotiate too high, they tell them they simply won't give them pay raises. (With the implication that for some reason the potential employee would instead want to start low and get raises).

I'm not sure where "The assumption is that the candidate is already worth the top of the pay range for the position" comes into this. As a potential employee, i want to maximize my $$$. How much the employer thinks i'm worth is the employer's problem not mine. If the employer gives me a choice that i can either (a) make more money or (b) make less money, i am going to choose (a), and i don't know why anyone would chose (b), all other things being equal.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#252

Post by tharkun__ »

deathanatos wrote: post #187
xondono wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why you never say “you are looking for $100/hour”, you say “I’m making $100/hour but conditions here are nice”.

I'd actually recommend the opposite. I want them to come in above my current salary — simply hitting my salary means their deal is basically the same as my current deal, plus a bunch of unknowns around the work, the environment, the company. If I'm going to switch companies, it should advantage me to do so. (And IME, if you give exactly the salary, they'll come in as little above it as possible. I am naming what I wa…

Well the thing is that if they name a number first they will assess whether you'd go for the 100 even if they would top out at 150 and then just offer you the 100 or say 110 or something. This will set the "tone" and the base number for negotiation. Your mind will be thinking "he said 110, so I guess they might go to 120" so you'll maybe ask for 130 and accept the 120 they offer you next.

Queue up yourself asking for 150 coz you make 100 right now and you did your research. The recruiter might just begrudgingly give you the 150 they were prepared to go to anyway coz you seem to know your stuff. Of maybe he's gonna haggle you down to 140. Big deal. But you set the tone of the conversation. This is not gonna work if you don't know your worth but either way either you are gonna lowball yourself and they will just accept or they are gonna lowball it.

Episode 10 here but the rest are awesome too:

https://slate.com/business/negotiation

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#253

Post by dodobirdlord »

TinyBig wrote: post #181
dcolkitt wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that industrial psychology has consistently found that fluid intelligence is the best predictor of job performance. Even more so than experience.[0] Whiteboard interviews are used, not because they have a lot of relevance to the job, but because they're a hard-to-fake indicator of high intelligence. Somebody who shows a lot of mental fluidity with complex data structures, almost assuredly can quickly m…

In what universe are whiteboard interviews used this way, as opposed to the interviewer expecting an exact answer regurgitated instantly?

I'm sure many interviewers do cargo-cult whiteboard interviews, but the core intention of the archetypical whiteboard interview is to spring a complex question on the candidate that they have never seen before and observe how the candidate thinks. If the interviewer is asking questions that the candidate knows the answer to the interviewer is literally doing it wrong. It's not a trivia challenge, and the interviewer should only ask questions that they are confident the candidate hasn't ever seen before. That's not to say that Leetcode-style preparation doesn't work, but it works by tricking the interviewer into thinking that the candidate has solved the problem very quickly, when in fact the candidate actually already knew the solution.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#254

Post by yellowstuff »

valarauko wrote: post #135
saagarjha wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It limits your options down . If you say you're looking for $100/hour, and the recruiter was planning on giving you $150/hour…guess what offer you're going to get?

To play Devil's Advocate, and I ask as someone not in the industry (I'm in academia) - is the difference between expectations really that large? I would imagine (perhaps unreasonably) that a relatively seasoned person on the job market would have a reasonable understanding of their market value within a few percentage points - so the recruiter might be willing to pay up to $105/hour, while you low balled it at $100/h…

I have over 10 years of experience and was recently on the job market. The highest paid job I was pitched by a recruiter paid more than double the lowest paid job I was pitched.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#255

Post by woutr_be »

klenwell wrote: post #16

One additional tip on recruiters: have a cheat sheet ready (web page or public Google doc) that answers the basic questions they'll have for you and makes clear your expectations. Here's the info I ask them to provide: - Job Title and Salary - Job Description - Company Overview and Location - Steps in Hiring Process Whenever I'm emailed by a recruiter, I politely thank them for reaching out, paste the link to the che…

Asking for - what to me seems like basic - details is something I’ve been doing every time a recruiter reaches. And honestly, maybe only 5% replies with all the requested information.

If their response doesn’t come with the answers, or it’s just “let’s have a call to discuss”, I already give up and disregard them as spam.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#256

Post by nmfisher »

tomcam wrote: post #206
mdorazio wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible, outdated advice for anyone with more than a couple years experience. The value you get out of it is not wasting everyone's time when the salary available isn't even close to high enough. Decide what your minimum compensation requirement is, increase this by some percentage that would make you happy, and give that to recruiters. You will get far more out of avoiding bullshit than you will potentially…

I am an old guy who is a better-than-average negotiator (top 20%, not top 1%) and I’d like to hear more about that. In my view, it is never advantageous to come up with the first number in any kind of business negotiation and I have done tens of millions of dollars in negotiations for myself over the last couple of decades. But I haven’t interviewed for a job in 20 years. I would like to hear more about why that conc…

Price anchoring is a pretty well researched/understood phenomenon though - as in, whoever comes up with the first number sets the tone for what's "acceptable". Someone who negotiates down from that number feels like they got a better deal than someone who was negotiated up to it.

I admit it's not exactly applicable to salary negotiation, but IMO leading with a high number can help cement the counterparty's perception of your value. I think it really depends on what type of company (and what level of its food chain) you're applying for.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#257

Post by cloverich »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #253
TinyBig wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what universe are whiteboard interviews used this way, as opposed to the interviewer expecting an exact answer regurgitated instantly?

I'm sure many interviewers do cargo-cult whiteboard interviews, but the core intention of the archetypical whiteboard interview is to spring a complex question on the candidate that they have never seen before and observe how the candidate thinks. If the interviewer is asking questions that the candidate knows the answer to the interviewer is literally doing it wrong. It's not a trivia challenge, and the interviewer…

Once you "memorize" a core set of data structures and algorithms, you can apply them to a variety of "novel" problems. The issue is those technique that are memorized, that become useful in solving these problems, aren't intuitive, despite their deceptive simplicity. In reality there's little memorization of solutions, and much memorization of useful techniques (data structures, algorithmic techniques) that are useful for these problems. And the more you do, the more you'll have at your disposal for "novel" problems. Further, many of these memorized techniques are not as intuitive as they seem. Quite a few resulted in publications when they were discovered.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#258

Post by theonething »

decafninja wrote: post #179
vincentmarle wrote: post #9

The hardest part about interviewing is that there is no feedback loop; I once interviewed at 10 companies within 2 weeks and got rejected from all of them, but to this day I still don't know what part I need to improve upon.

Personal anectdote, so YMMV. Interviewed at a FAANG last year, failed the onsite. I got called by the (internal) recruiter a few weeks ago asking if I wanted to retry, and he offered feedback he had from my previous attempt. I was shocked - both that he provided feedback, and because my own evaluation of how I did differed from the actual feedback (did better at a round I thought I bombed in). More on this later. Int…

> if I had asked to be considered for a lower level

That seems like something the company should initiate on.

"Based on your interview, we think you would be more qualified for this position instead. Would you consider?"

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#259

Post by jpmoral »

yudlejoza wrote: post #116
hfkldjsjfkdj wrote: post #100

These blogs are just for procasinators to feel productive. If you landed the interview then it is just about practicing through a lot of questions. The time you finished reading this comment and this blog, some people out there have already completed a mock interview or a leetcode question. I wonder who made greater gains.

I agree with this. I would add, these holier-than-thou FAANG interviewers writing blog posts about how to clear a FAANG interview are actually bullshitters. They want to feel good about themselves. So they write. When push comes to shove, these same interviewers would clear the candidates who've pretty much memorized all the medium-level leetcode problems, but lie during the interview by claiming that they've never s…

You can argue that the advice is BS, but I don't detect any moralising in it.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#260

Post by koolba »

interviewer0000 wrote: post #212
saberdancer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I tried this every time I was interviewed. Never could get them to give the first number. I probably should have been firmer but usually the pressure of the situation led to me giving a number I would be happy with.

> I tried this every time I was interviewed. Never could get them to give the first number. "I've actually done a few of these calls at this point and i know what the best practice / right move / way to play this is, so instead of me telling you what i'm looking for i'd like you to tell me the range on your hiring document:)" and just be totally silent. Worked twice for me now.

Being silent is incredibly effect during negotiations. It’s arguably the biggest “secret technique”.

Most people want to fill the audio void and will talk. Extensively.

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