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Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

hotwire.dev

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Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#271

Post by kaleidawave »

jtms wrote: post #63
kaleidawave wrote: post #49

There will be a very hot wire when I have to ask the server to render a component on the server after I asked to increment a single counter

it might not be so bad 42 is not so many more bytes than... { counter: 42 } also - no massive up front JS bundles to contend with

Assuming that the counter state is on the client. A button with an event listener that runs x.innerHTML = state.counter++ makes a lot more sense than a round trip to the server.

Just looked and Turbo is 135kb. I rewrote this website (http://40.115.126.159/) with my own JS framework and it comes at 15kb, that's 9x smaller Turbo...

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#272

Post by codethief »

In case anyone from Basecamp sees this thread:

The introductory video is far too long, far too technical (I know a lot about web dev but don't know a lick of Ruby or Rails) and far too fast to follow. I was really interested in Hotwire because of the comments here and now… not so much anymore.

(Which of course doesn't say anything about the quality of the tech. I just thought I'd post my first impression of the website.)

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#273

Post by modernerd »

Pure JS developers trying to jump off the JS train have a few decent choices now:

- Elixir / Phoenix

- .NET / Blazor

- Laravel / Livewire

- Rails / Hotwire

Or hold on for the JS ecosystem to figure out good patterns that balance performance/maintainability (React Server Components look ok, and will probably trickle into Next.js for those who want a framework).

Does one of the above stand out as a good thing to learn from a career perspective, say, for a JS developer growing tired of frontend?

Is the thirst for React developers ever likely to dry up and leave devs who know these frameworks with an advantage?

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#274

Post by yopo »

dorkandstormy wrote: post #206

Am I the only one who was very, very surprised when the screencast immediately jumped into Rails? There's no mention of Rails anywhere on the landing page.

Ya same here. I've been doing web dev for 13 years and was genuinely looking forward to this magical HTML only solution of theirs but left feeling deceived after finding out it's rails.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#275

Post by WhitneyLand »

callamdelaney wrote: post #244
sourc3 wrote: post #120

This is so exciting to see, especially for older folk like me. Almost 20 years ago, one of my professors told us before graduation that hot tech is mostly about the idea pendulum swinging back and forth. I immediately chalked it up to 65+ above white wise men snobbery. However, this is exactly that. We started with static pages, then came Ajax and Asp.net and the open source variants, then we went full SPA, now we ar…

>65+ above white wise men snobbery Nice! Casual ageism and racism mixed into one post.

Conventional wisdom is discrimination against privileged groups such as white men is less offensive because they’ve endured so much less of it.

On one hand, it’s true. It’s part of white privilege which is tangible.

On the other hand, however less often people in a privileged class are realistically impacted by discrimination, it’s still > 0.0%. Since it usually costs nothing more to include everyone it seems useful.

But I think the biggest reason it’s important to care about discrimination wherever it shows up and not let people off the hook is that it’s unifying.

There’s a story out of Buddhism that suggests it’s important to think equally kindly about rich people, kind of similar in that they’re a privileged class.

I know it’s a hard sell. I don’t do it justice here. However a powerful argument can be made that not disparaging privileged classes, actually helps us all in the long run/big picture.

If I get down voted I understand, that’s ok. If it makes a difference I don’t mean to minimize the 10,000 year history of pain suffered by any humans due to discrimination.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#276

Post by cutler »

axegon_ wrote: post #122
ithrow wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Javascript as a language is actually pretty decent these days, your criticism probably applies more to certain parts of the ecosystem.

No, I'm talking about js as a whole. Standard library is crap, inconsistent, even the most basic of naming conventions are not followed anywhere. The fact that the standard library jumps between camel case, pascal case, snake case and unicase at random is a perfect example. The list of absurdities is beyond ridiculous[1]. [1] https://github.com/denysdovhan/wtfjs

What standard library?

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#277

Post by freeopinion »

Twirrim wrote: post #255
blorenz wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the benefit of hindsight at this time. You can draw parallel to history of flight and all the crazy contraptions that people attempted. Great technology can emerge from the combination of numerous shit shows. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

> You have the benefit of hindsight at this time. People have been pointing out it's a shit show with no end in sight for the entire duration of the phase. Pointing out the performance impact and cost to end users, how diabolical it is for those on lower latency or poorer network connectivity (i.e. most of the world), and so on. Same thing as always happens with these pendulum swings, newer engineers come in convince…

I guess I've become a grey beard. I've done the whole journey from CGI everything to a bit of js to SPA. As much as I'd really like to be nostalgic about the good old days, there are reasons everything got pushed into the client. One of those reasons is maintaining state.

"HTML over the wire" isn't really a return to the good ol' days. It's still the client maintaining state and using tons of js to move data back and forth without page reloads. It just changes the nature of 1/2 the data and moves the burden of templating back to the server.

It is amusing that they make a claim that reads a lot like "eliminate 80% of your Javascript and replace it with Stimulus". What is Stimulus? A Javascript framework.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#278

Post by trog »

rorykoehler wrote: post #235
freedomben wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also prefer boring and love how HN works. That said though, modern consumers expect much more. We tech people like command lines, the ultimate in simple and boring. Modern consumers often want animation and things[1]. Source: UI/UX researchers tell me this when I push back and say "let's keep the tech simple and forgo some of the animations, etc in the name of using simple OOTB stuff without hacking thousands of li…

Do people really want that stuff out do they just think they want it?

Do people think they want it, or do developers and designers think the people want it?!

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#279

Post by devwastaken »

fmakunbound wrote: post #186
sourc3 wrote: post #120

This is so exciting to see, especially for older folk like me. Almost 20 years ago, one of my professors told us before graduation that hot tech is mostly about the idea pendulum swinging back and forth. I immediately chalked it up to 65+ above white wise men snobbery. However, this is exactly that. We started with static pages, then came Ajax and Asp.net and the open source variants, then we went full SPA, now we ar…

I’m glad this technique is making a comeback. The last 10 years of JavaScript on the client have been an utter shit show that left me wondering wtf people were thinking.

Yeah people shouldn't make applications in programming languages. If your application can't be made with html/css then it's bloatware. All this java, .net and C are totally unnecessary.
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