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Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

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Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#221

Post by clementmas »

llimos wrote: post #15

It sounds a lot like Laravel Livewire[1] Also a lot like React Server Components that we saw on HN yesterday[2] It seems like this is the next wave of web apps. Hopefully once the hype settles, we'll be able to decide which approach is best for which project. [1] https://laravel-livewire.com/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25497065

Caleb Porzio (creator of Livewire) made videos about "Server-Side Applications": https://laracasts.com/series/javascript-techniques-for-serve...

His work inspired me to build my app (TravelMap) with SSR views: https://clem.travelmap.net

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#222

Post by Nextgrid »

SahAssar wrote: post #41

I've never seen one of these "logic in html-attributes" systems take error checking seriously. In stimulus they start to mention it in "Designing For Resilience" (though only for feature-checking), but in "Working With External Resources" where it uses calls network/IO bound calls they never mention how to handle errors or if the framework just leaves it up to you. Stimulus is also where you need to write your own js…

Counterpoint: is there any error handling in the majority of SPAs today? From my experience, SPAs can crap out in all kinds of interesting ways when the underlying network connection is flaky and I often end up stuck on some kind of spinner that will never complete (nor give me a way to abort & retry the operation when I already know it won't complete and don't want to wait for the ~30-second timeout, if there is a timeout even).

Not saying this is better from an error handling perspective, but at least the whole idea of Hotwire and its peers (Turbolinks, etc) is that there is no state and it should thus be safer and quicker to reload the page should things go wrong.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#223

Post by rorykoehler »

edoceo wrote: post #131
axegon_ wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm talking about js as a whole. Standard library is crap, inconsistent, even the most basic of naming conventions are not followed anywhere. The fact that the standard library jumps between camel case, pascal case, snake case and unicase at random is a perfect example. The list of absurdities is beyond ridiculous[1]. [1] https://github.com/denysdovhan/wtfjs

Who on this thread was saying what's old is new? 100% of what you said has also been lobbed at PHP recently and I've heard similar complaint about PERL and MS-SQL (that I remember well) and I'm sure others (one of those Delphi product too)

JS is the new PHP. Part of the problem with massive popularity is it attracts also the lower ability devs and the ecosystem slowly degrades due to this. This cascades.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#225

Post by ketamine__ »

Nextgrid wrote: post #222
SahAssar wrote: post #41

I've never seen one of these "logic in html-attributes" systems take error checking seriously. In stimulus they start to mention it in "Designing For Resilience" (though only for feature-checking), but in "Working With External Resources" where it uses calls network/IO bound calls they never mention how to handle errors or if the framework just leaves it up to you. Stimulus is also where you need to write your own js…

Counterpoint: is there any error handling in the majority of SPAs today? From my experience, SPAs can crap out in all kinds of interesting ways when the underlying network connection is flaky and I often end up stuck on some kind of spinner that will never complete (nor give me a way to abort & retry the operation when I already know it won't complete and don't want to wait for the ~30-second timeout, if there is a t…

I refresh SPA apps more than other apps because of these problems.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#226

Post by poisonta »

It took a decade for the industry to realize that JS frameworks were overhyped and the degraded productivity because of them was not worthy. I think they will be replaced by Hotwire-like technologies in the next decade.

The same thing will happen to micro services (especially, distributed monolith) and Kubernetes. They are just overhyped.

Productivity matters most!

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#227

Post by Nextgrid »

rorykoehler wrote: post #220
craftinator wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably, the web is worse with chat bots, sticky headers, and modals constantly vying for your attention. We can blame this on the MBA types. I've literally never heard a software engineer say "hey, let's make this pop-up after they've already been looking at the page for a minute!" or anything like it.

Engineers typically aren’t tasked with increasing revenue/engagement.

Unfortunately I have to disagree - if there weren't any engineers around to implement the dark patterns they wouldn't be as prevalent. Maybe this calls for an equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath but in the tech world?

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#230

Post by blorenz »

fmakunbound wrote: post #186
sourc3 wrote: post #120

This is so exciting to see, especially for older folk like me. Almost 20 years ago, one of my professors told us before graduation that hot tech is mostly about the idea pendulum swinging back and forth. I immediately chalked it up to 65+ above white wise men snobbery. However, this is exactly that. We started with static pages, then came Ajax and Asp.net and the open source variants, then we went full SPA, now we ar…

I’m glad this technique is making a comeback. The last 10 years of JavaScript on the client have been an utter shit show that left me wondering wtf people were thinking.

You have the benefit of hindsight at this time. You can draw parallel to history of flight and all the crazy contraptions that people attempted. Great technology can emerge from the combination of numerous shit shows. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
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