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Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#571

Post by enos_feedler »

ethbr0 wrote: post #348
SkyMarshal wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that how the entire stock market works? Valuations based on net present value of future projected earnings. You just need a story about future earnings that enough of the market will buy into. Both Apple and Tesla have enough track record to credibly tell such a story.

Net present value of future projected earnings, adjusted for risk . That last part seems to be missing. Likely because the smart money knows that retail investors + indices = momentum trading on sectors. As there's no ability for anyone to call BS in the way they used to be able to. Or to put it another way: if I'm Toyota, I have a demonstrated ability to build cars profitably. If I'm someone who says I can build as…

If you are Toyota, you've only demonstrated you could build cars profitably for the consumer market you were already in. If consumer preferences, trends, etc have changed, and no product is yet available to fulfill those new preferences, there is actually risk that what you are good at building profitably isn't what people want anymore. There is risk in that too.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#572

Post by modeless »

colordrops wrote: post #386
modeless wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car I have to strongly disagree with this. The touchscreen is great for the vast majority of things it replaces. The only physical controls I ever miss are for temperature (which is a very minor complaint) and windshield wipers (though I would also accept auto wipers that actually work). I do think the UI smoothnes…

You can activate the wipers with one of the control sticks, at least on the model 3.

You can only "activate" them to wipe a single time with the button on the stalk. Not useful in rain unless you like pressing a button every three seconds for the entire time you're driving.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#573

Post by sjwright »

sixQuarks wrote: post #415
sjwright wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because Tesla hasn't had much success in terms of advancement of automated assembly. They went down the same rabbit hole that a few other automakers already explored and discovered what others already did—that high levels of factory automation simply doesn't work. (Yet.) At best, Tesla factories are currently comparable to the state of the art in terms of car factory automation.

You obviously don't follow Tesla very closely. Sandy Munro of Munro associates has literally called Tesla's engineering "mind blowing" and at least 5 years ahead of any other manufacturer. If you are not familiar, Sandy Munro is one of the leading automotive manufacturing experts, if not the top expert. So I'm going to take his word for it rather than yours.

YOU obviously don't follow Tesla very closely. When the great grandparent said "Tesla's revolution is a more automated assembly", they were flat wrong which is something Elon himself admitted. Tesla tried to go big on automated assembly and failed.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984

I have watched most all of Sandy's videos; they are orthogonal to assembly automation. The exceptionally impressive things Tesla have done in later revisions of the Model 3/Y (particularly the octovalve and the rear body castings) are related to advanced manufacturing methods which reduce part counts. Not factory automation.

Sandy is very good at styling himself as a premier industry expert—and he's quite likely one of the greatest automotive manufacturing experts on YouTube. But I don't think most serious automotive manufacturing experts are spending much time posting on YouTube...

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#574

Post by mcot2 »

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

Different take here. I think they should stick to the computer/operating system of a car and either take a large stake in an existing automaker or license the technology to several of them.

Actually _making_ cars is doomed to be a failure. You need a massive workforce and very large factories. It is fairly low margin compared to even computer hardware let alone software. Then they have to support these cars which means you need a massive service network. It really is a bad bad idea.

Making a car with the likes of Magna is just plain stupid. You can’t get any sort of volume to make the car cheaper and get the OS into the hands of millions of drivers.

Here is what they should focus on:

1.) Sensor suite for self driving. 2.) AI computer for self driving. 3.) Main computer and screen(s) for navigation, car controls and games/audio/video apps. 4.) Autonomous software.

Work directly with automakers from the ground up and design the vehicles jointly with them to ensure the systems feel native rather than bolted on.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#575

Post by modeless »

sroussey wrote: post #244
Shivetya wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your assessment of the one screen driving experience. First and foremost the use of the screen is incidental to driving. Just the normal eye travel one has when checking the mirrors is more than sufficient to pick up your speed and outside of that the glance time is insignificant. If you really want to make this fun, you don't even need to know as you can use traffic aware cruise control, a feature ma…

This sounds like something someone would write when they are young and don’t have issues with focusing near and far. Having speed off to the side is terrible. End. Stop.

You can't focus on the display but you can focus on your instrument cluster in your dashboard? They're pretty close to the same distance away in most cars. If you have trouble changing focus then what you need is a HUD, not a traditional instrument cluster.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#576

Post by m463 »

iandanforth wrote: post #42
modeless wrote: post #6

The Tesla Model 3 already embodies the minimalism, software focus, and vertical integration that have driven Apple's success in the phone market. Right down to the custom SoC and capacitive touchscreen in lieu of buttons. I'm really curious what Apple's differentiators will be. Also, 2024 still seems aggressive to deploy self-driving for real.

Having recently sold my Tesla Model 3 I can say there is a lot to be desired with that car. The biggest lesson from Tesla is that cars are not cellphones. Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car. I hope that Apple learns that lesson. I think if they had gone first they might have made that mistake too, but now that it's been tried they can find interes…

I do like tesla, but I strongly agree about the display.

I test drove a model 3 and ... couldn't buy one because of the dash.

I think there should be - always - status in line of sight of the driver.

The model 3 dashboard in the center of the car is just a bunch of bathwater with no baby.

Some people won't care. I've had friends say they got used to it.

I can... almost... think of it like an off-road motorcycle with a handlebar and no instruments.

But personally I couldn't buy in.

Related, I think the controls on the model 3 have also been over-minimized. The scroll wheels have the feel of a $3 computer mouse, and autopilot overloaded on the gear selector is cheap, not elegant.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#577

Post by m463 »

akeck wrote: post #241
iandanforth wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently sold my Tesla Model 3 I can say there is a lot to be desired with that car. The biggest lesson from Tesla is that cars are not cellphones. Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car. I hope that Apple learns that lesson. I think if they had gone first they might have made that mistake too, but now that it's been tried they can find interes…

I'm waiting for a good PEV from Mazda. They announced a policy of no touch screens.

So here's the thing - there is nothing wrong with touchscreens.

But they have to be used appropriately.

A touchscreen for wiper control, or to turn on defrost, or to flash your headlights at another car is NOT appropriate.

A touchscreen for a nav display, or to set infrequently used preferences is very appropriate.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#578

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

ksec wrote: post #570
kansface wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a small time Apple shareholder and have the opposite reaction. Apple is sitting on 300 billion in cash - I expect them to do something with it. They need to move into some other market because their existing ones are tapped out. Cars are a great fit: 1. Big enough market for an investment of 10s of billions 2. Its international (quit a bit of that money is stuck overseas) 3. Making electric cars isn't too hard (s…

I think the Goal would be Uber, but with a fleet of Apple Cars. I still dont see how selling and servicing Apple Cars would work for Apple if it is sold as an originally car. That large investment and sunk cost would be a good use for its Cash. ( And it would be part of their Services Revenue ) Apple also gets to trial and gather Data with their current Map Data Collection vehicle. The problem is there is nothing, ab…

Do we need level 5?

Waymo has level 4 robotaxis that anyone can request after landing at the Phoenix airport, by just downloading the app. I feel like this use case is sufficient to build a business around.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#579

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

kenhwang wrote: post #373
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make money from servicing the car, which Apple is quite skilled at capturing as well..

Which is expected to be severely reduced with EVs unless Apple's plans are to enter the ICE market.

Makes me wonder if they're going to try to make money off of services and subscriptions...

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#580

Post by rangoon626 »

Please, stick to the computers!

There are MANY car manufacturers. Do we need another?

There are only TWO mainstream desktop operating systems/platforms. We could use another, but the barrier is now too high.

If the company has that much profits that they can dabble in the automotive industry, then maybe they didn’t need to use every tax minimization, supply chain efficiency, and globalized slave-labor manufacturing option at their disposal.

Ppl: Why can’t you invest in manufacturing stuff inside the us? Other ppl: “You want your iPhone to cost 5-gajillion dollars?”

This seems wholly unhealthy, maybe big tech is due to be broken up.

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