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Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#391

Post by vel0city »

iancmceachern wrote: post #355
tuatoru wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulatory differences are also huge. Apple has negliglible experience dealing with the raft of certifications and demonstrations of compliance that car manufacturers have to go through.

They have been working in a similar highly regulated space (medical devices) for years.

You're talking about the Apple Watch, right? That's peanuts of regulatory compliance stuff compared to the amount of regulations related to building a car in the US market. The FDA requires this big fat disclaimer:

> The ECG app is intended for over-the-counter (OTC)use. The ECG data displayed by the ECG app is intended for informational use only. The user is not intended to interpret or take clinical action based on the device output without consultation of a qualified healthcare professional. The ECG waveform is meant to supplement rhythm classification for the purposes of discriminating AFib from normal sinus rhythm and not intended to replace traditional methods of diagnosis or treatment.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf18/DEN180044.pdf

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#392

Post by ajross »

st1x7 wrote: post #181
ajross wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I completely buy that. Shipping/transport and resource management at the scale of automobile production is a rather different world than consumer electronics where literally everything anyone cares about fits on a plain old wooden pallet. Apple does have smart people, and they obviously have a ton of cash. So they absolutely could make a play here. But to imagine that they'll walk in to a market tha…

As a company that is running mostly on brand status, Tesla is probably the easiest competitor for Apple to beat in this space. The real competition are the companies that have been building cars for decades.

> As a company that is running mostly on brand status

They shipped like half a million cars this year! They own like 70-80% of every EV market they compete in. This is the kind of criticism you'd read about Tesla in 2014. The companies that "have been building cars for decades" are getting stomped by Tesla in this space, 12x more Model 3's were sold than LEAF's in the US last year.

At some point the established wisdom among some people that Tesla is failing is going to change, right? The ship has sailed on that, left the harbor, and is half way across the ocean by now.

And the weirdest thing here is that it's not an attempt to attack Tesla from the perspective of established auto makers but from Apple Computer, a company with no experience at all in the market and almost nothing to bring to the table but "brand status" (and a freighter full of cash, of course).

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#393

Post by freeone3000 »

Shivetya wrote: post #201
iandanforth wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently sold my Tesla Model 3 I can say there is a lot to be desired with that car. The biggest lesson from Tesla is that cars are not cellphones. Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car. I hope that Apple learns that lesson. I think if they had gone first they might have made that mistake too, but now that it's been tried they can find interes…

I disagree with your assessment of the one screen driving experience. First and foremost the use of the screen is incidental to driving. Just the normal eye travel one has when checking the mirrors is more than sufficient to pick up your speed and outside of that the glance time is insignificant. If you really want to make this fun, you don't even need to know as you can use traffic aware cruise control, a feature ma…

My G37x has one button per car function, as it should be. Perfect tactile feedback, non-modal, always there. You want it to do a thing, you push the button.

(Photo of someone else's dash: https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/323783/2010_... )

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#394

Post by moogleii »

davidrm wrote: post #2

Apple has been in and out of the car game for a few years now, with executives coming and going. What I'm about to say will be as meaningful as this hear-say article, but I feel that Apple management, and its shareholders, have no idea what it means to build a car. Things like this need 100% commitment from the management, Cook just doesn't seem like the guy to do it.

That's one way of interpreting it. I would venture that their public dabbling is indicative that that they do understand what it means to build a car, in the sense that car manufacturing shouldn't be underestimated.

Going all-in on something like this when you're not ready is just a waste of capital and nobody wants to be the next Fisker. Historically speaking, Apple has usually made sure all their ducks are in a row before launching something, whether it's going into processor design, audio, or launching a credit card. There's quite a bit of chess pieces that were put into position first, and a lot of that was done via hiring, acquisitions, and partnerships. That should demonstrate that Apple has gotten into other industries regardless of how much management or shareholders previously understood the problem. In other words, they seem to understand when they don't understand.

With BMW declining to be a partner all those years ago (allegedly), it makes sense to me that they would put their plans on the back burner. I'm still skeptical that they can (or want to) do this without a major manufacturing partner, but we'll see. Or, given how conservative they seem to be with their capital, maybe we never will. The AirPods Max project allegedly started 4 years ago, and those are just headphones.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#396

Post by wezen »

jaimex2 wrote: post #360

This will be fun to watch unfold. A company with no innovative leadership since Jobs will get a bunch of Tesla rejects to build a an electric car with pie in the sky battery tech. If it doesn't need lithium they might have a shot. Also Apple isn't known for being a machine learning company, I'm sure the car will be very pretty but they're kidding themselves if they think they are making a self driving system that to…

No innovative leadership? How can you say that after the Apple Watch, Apple Silicon, etc and their stock having grown so much?

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#397

Post by whywhywhywhy »

_ph_ wrote: post #327
christophilus wrote: post #285

If I was an Apple shareholder (I guess I am, indirectly through Berkshire), this would piss me off. Apple is in a very good business. Cars are a terrible business. Just compare Apple’s margins to any car company. Also, it’s really hard to move into a business that is widely outside your core competency. It can be done, but the effort is huge, and I suspect the median track record is poor.

One can say many things about Tim Cook, but not that he doesn't understand "business". So if Apple makes a car, they certainly have a plan on how to make a profit from it.

>One can say many things about Tim Cook, but not that he doesn't understand "business".

He understands business perfectly, but does he understand product?

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#398

Post by foxtr0t »

agumonkey wrote: post #380
foxtr0t wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite becoming more similar in recent years, the cell phone supply chain is still very different than the automotive supply chain. The number of parts/unit differs by an order of magnitude and so does the size and weight, not to mention manufacturing techniques and materials. These are capabilities, not so much skills, and they aren't as transferable as you may think. For instance, logistically things are very diff…

Are you sure an EV is still that much more complex in terms of part count from a phone ? An ICE I would agree.

If you're asking this question seriously, I have to ask a clarification question: what are we actually talking about? Are we comparing just certain aspects of production of the whole thing? If you think about this from an engineering perspective for even 30 seconds there are so many differences that come to mind.

- Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone

- Must operate in a much wider variety of conditions than a phone

- iPhones don't need to drive themselves

- iPhones don't need to pass crash tests

- Brakes don't exist on iPhones

- Suspension does not exist on iPhones

- iPhones don't propel themselves at 100 mph

- iPhones weight orders of magnitude less than a car

- Regulatory requirements are way less stringent for phones

- Lights

- ...

I'm sort of dumbfounded by the level of conversation here given this is HN and the reputation is one of very thoughtful discourse on current events relating to technology and engineering.

EDIT: line breaks, looks like I'm further contributing to the downward spiral here.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#399

Post by cossatot »

jandrese wrote: post #313
finnh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Also: insane supply-chain management chops, a skill that is more and more transferable - especially for electric cars.

I can just see Apple now, milling the entire body of the car out of a single block of aluminum using a 4 axis C&C machine.

"a bicycle for the body"

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#400

Post by lock-free »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #255
lock-free wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an Apple Card, I'm unsure of what immense capital they're pouring into it with an underlying ethos of user experience.

RE: User experience - best card I’ve ever used. Integrates with my watch and phone in such a way that I don’t even have to pull it out to pay. Can dispute charges with a single text. Easy to see full details of spending and billing. The cash back pays for my monthly Apple One account too.

I have my debit account linked to Apple Pay too.

Cash back is pretty standard, if not below other rates (I'm not even sure what qualifies as 1 vs 2 vs 3%, seems random). The disputes aren't any easier or harder than I've seen through other apps for different banks.

The graph for expenses looks good, but I've had that with other accounts for years.

It's really not that different other than cash back being right there in the same app

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