Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#181

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #63

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

Just sounds like a whole load of "these kids are ruining what used to be the good old times". Of course, I also think music from back in the day was better, but I am also aware that its just a matter of taste and our tastes are molded by prevailing business-social pressures as ours was back in the day. If music appreciation sucks today it can be blamed more on the music industry and their idol manufacturing pipeline…

[deleted]

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#182

Post by lifeformed » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #158

comprev wrote: post #103

I don't use streaming services because I disagree with their insulting revenue for the artists. Fortunately I've always been one to seek out more underground artists, and platforms like Bandcamp have been amazing. Not only do the artists get an order of magnitude more revenue, sellers can offer merchandise and physical media (vinyl, CD, cassette) too. These often include a digital copy. Due to the closer connection b…

What IS the revenue agreement? This seems to be the most closely guarded secret in America.

For Bandcamp? They take 15%, or 10% if you're doing well. For streaming services, they split their income proportionally amongst all played tracks. That's about 0.3 cents per play on Spotify recently.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#183

Post by runarberg » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

friendlybus wrote: post #96

Bayart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Music has always been extremely formulaic. That's its very nature : using tropes we're accustomed to to provoke an emotional reaction. But it certainly is less formulaic now than it was a few centuries ago.

Less formulaic now? Pop music is becoming more repetitive. [0] People like Max Martin producing an amazing amount of hit pop songs leads me to think it's more formulaic. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_tjFwcmHy5M

I guess it would depend on how you sample the music (i.e. from the top 50 hits playlists, randomly, by streaming number, by sold copies, etc.) and where you establish the baseline, and again how you compute forumlaic.

So if you are comparing top hits today with experimental rock of the 70s, and measure it in variance of chords, timbre and vocabulary. Yes it would be easy to show how music is becoming less varied. However if you establish the baseline during the late classical era (and limit your self to western music; as is often done) I’m sure you will find music today to be more varied.

If you sample randomly and make sure to include all of the experimental genres I’m sure you will find music today more varied then ever, and even if you go by top sales (and make sure you include music from around the word) I sure you might find that music is just as varied as it was back in the 70s.

Then there the question of how you measure musical variance. It is easy enough to do it by measuring (among other) the chord progression, or timbre, or proportion of the chorus, etc. but when people do this they often undermine many genres of music (e.g. minimalist music of the 80s and 90s) or hip hop, etc.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#184

Post by maxfurman » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

daniellarusso wrote: post #166

foepys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely can play popular music. They just don't want to pay for it. All popular YouTubers and streamers are businesses which is a part that is often forgotten. They are all acting like they are friends with their viewers but in reality they are businesses just like a car wash, restaurant, plumber, etc.

This is wrong. If I want to DJ a livestream on Youtube, I can only play certain songs, regardless of my willingness to pay for the songs. Certain music is prohibited from the platform. It is not a business, I am not trying to sell ads or promote anything.

Is your video monetized? Either way, youtube is certainly trying to sell ads on top of it. Adding content to youtube is a for-profit enterprise. Whether any of that profit accrues to the creator is another issue.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#185

Post by Multiplayer » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

thrav wrote: post #167

randomsearch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re projecting your free time / dedication to discovery on other people and that’s unfair. Spotify’s discovery tools for example are a real boon to many. That said, I do feel the same as you about the “good old days”. Owning music was a very different experience. It doesn’t help that streaming apps haven’t worked out the UX yet (god knows why, they’ve had long enough). But... flip side... if I could time travel ba…

I think this has more to do with our culture making everything about the individual. You can’t name bands anymore, because explosive popularity is the realm of the individual artist. Even massive individual artists, disappear into relative obscurity when they move into a band format (John Mayer). Kanye, Taylor, Nicki, Lizzo, Justin, Drake, Ariana, Billie, Miley... Even hip-hop, which seems like a distinctly individua…

You see this with... Countries of hundreds of millions of people. The idea that one person is running the United States is ludicrous. The amount of over-attention on the current president is just an amazing case in point. This approach doesn't scale and the resulting lack of progress is holding us all hostage. /rant

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#186

Post by Multiplayer » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #74

gnopgnip wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would artists be compensated if all art was public domain?

Just earlier this month I discovered some stunning new music. I paid its producer $10 for the album, $9 (minimum price) to gift it to a friend, and $9 to gift it to another friend. That day the artist earned $28, minus Bandcamp’s cut, from me alone. Even though that musician enables free listening via Bandcamp, he does not distribute his work under Creative Commons or a similar license, which radically reduces the ch…

Link please?

I think curation of music is a large part of the ultimate answer to recreating the relationship we used to have with music. If you think it's "stunning" I want to hear it!

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#187

Post by tayo42 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #56

tayo42 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good music depends on what you like. Rock is a dead genre now, if you don't like edm or trap/hip hop then what new music are you listening to?

Lots of great music out there, here's some of what I enjoy but Bandcamp has so much more... https://delvonlamarrorgantrio.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-kex... https://smallstone.bandcamp.com/album/the-heat https://firebreatherdoom.bandcamp.com/ https://thesoftmoon.bandcamp.com/album/criminal https://dakhabrakha.bandcamp.com/album/the-road https://wizardrifle.bandcamp.com/ https://smallstone.bandcamp.com/album/our-birth-…

The fact you are giving me band camp links only strengthens the point im saying. Rock is on life support at best, if all you have are bandcamp links to indie bands. People arent going to go through everything on bandcamp to possibly find a gem.

I clicked a few of those links they sound like any band from the last 20 years. New rock sounds for 60 years were mainstream music and accessible and progressive. That is no longer the case. Rock is not a major genre any more. Less people are getting into it. Guitar sales have been dropping, its not popular. For a genre to be healthy it needs innovation and new ideas.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#188

Post by hedora » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #153

randomsearch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re projecting your free time / dedication to discovery on other people and that’s unfair. Spotify’s discovery tools for example are a real boon to many. That said, I do feel the same as you about the “good old days”. Owning music was a very different experience. It doesn’t help that streaming apps haven’t worked out the UX yet (god knows why, they’ve had long enough). But... flip side... if I could time travel ba…

>If you make a list of the greatest bands/artists of the latest 10 years and compare it to any decade since pop music got going, it doesn’t compare Ah, a classic meme: https://old.reddit.com/r/lewronggeneration/

I definitely agree with the GP. Here’s a list of top ten songs by year:

http://www.billyjamesmusic.com/erasongs.htm

This is an old meme because it’s been arguably been true since the 90’s.

According to that list, the sixties, seventies and eighties clearly beat the nineties in my biased opinion.

Part of it might just be a genre shift: The only rock songs that made the cut in the 90s were one each from Meat Loaf, Aerosmith, Eric Clapton, and Nirvana.

I think there’s a paradox where more excellent music is being produced every year, but genre fragmentation and the sheer diversity of it means the stuff that bubbles to the top gets more and more generic.

It’s like we used to get brie and roquefort, but now we have a larger vat, and velveeta is what floats to the top.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#189

Post by hedora » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

I like Tidal’s browsing features, though the featured artists are never for me.

Almost every album in my collection has a linked artist bio or album review that lists influences. On top of that, there’s a list of “similar artists for each band, and it’s usually surprising and spot on.

I’m starting to branch out into more of their curated playlists too.

It’s basically everything I wanted a music store to be back in the day.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#190

Post by slothtrop » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

The model is pretty broken. I'm curious as to whether stream-to-own platforms like resonate.is will take off, as artists need a bigger payout for it to be sustainable. But I expect interest in new streaming services to be stagnant. People aren't interested in shifting between services that are functionally identical to the consumer.