Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#41

Post by Spivak » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #26

systemvoltage wrote: post #4

I can't remember the last time I sat down and spent dedicated time just listening to music. It is the same restlessness that I have when I try to medidate. Songs are just boring and I need to have an excuse to listen to music - like driving so I can optimize the time. "I am driving, might as well take advantage of some music". The internet has ruined peace, fun, and everything that I remember growing up. :-(

The internet has ruined none of those things, you've just let yourself believe that it has. Just because you are unable to sit down and focus for 5 minutes does not mean something other than yourself is at fault.

That's a bit reductionist. Like in a sense it's literally true but the constant availability of limitless entertainment for every level of "attention energy" has changed reward expectation for our brains. Like how modern candy flavor puts Necco's to shame.

I realize that my having ADHD kinda throws the whole "relatable personal anecdote thing" off but still. There are plenty of things I can focus on even to the point of not sleeping or eating. But I can't focus on music at all. Even in the absence of other stimulus or distractions I will drift into my own thoughts. Music is relegated to a background activity because it has to be layered with something else for me to be able to listen and not get bored.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#42

Post by sooheon » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #28

systemvoltage wrote: post #4

I can't remember the last time I sat down and spent dedicated time just listening to music. It is the same restlessness that I have when I try to medidate. Songs are just boring and I need to have an excuse to listen to music - like driving so I can optimize the time. "I am driving, might as well take advantage of some music". The internet has ruined peace, fun, and everything that I remember growing up. :-(

> Songs are just boring and I need to have an excuse to listen to music - like driving so I can optimize the time. "I am driving, might as well take advantage of some music". The internet has ruined peace, fun, and everything that I remember growing up. :-( Why do you think the problem you are experiencing is the internet's fault?

That the internet has affected human attention span is not an uncommon idea[1]. The submission literally has the internet-age phrase "attention economy," and we all understand exactly what it's saying.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shallows_(book)

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#43

Post by smichel17 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #17

wolco2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try listening to older music. It's less boring and tries to bring out an emotion. A lot of the newer music has proshopped out any real emotion.

I'd be a bit careful in ascribing too much meaning to the differences in music over the years. Remember that your parents probably said the same thing about your music, and their parents before them. We tend to lock in our favorite music in our late teens and early 20s, and while it's okay to have a preference it's kind of silly to ascribe immutable qualities of the music when it's probably just what you like. Or, to…

Ah-ha -- but I happen to listen to largely the same music as my parents, so I can safely conclude that music has indeed gone to shit with my generation!

...actually, this isn't true. The reason older music is often seen as better is that time has filtered out the generic crap with no staying power. And so I second the recommendation to check out older music; it's easier to find quality stuff. And, like watching a TV series after it finishes airing, when you find something you like, you don't have to wait to check out the rest of it.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#44

Post by throwaway13337 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM UTC

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs.

The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a lot to do with growing attachment for that band or that song in the first place.

The record companies are shooting themselves in the foot here.

It's maybe a good thing - a new opportunity is open for a platform that allows a more permissive license. Artists that choose such would likely get a lot more exposure.

Maybe the Beatles of the future will finally be creative commons as it should be. Their music is, after all, is bigger than the band. All popular music is a reflection of our collective memory and a common ground to connect with others. After a certain point in popularity, it becomes our collective cultural heritage - no company should own that.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#45

Post by AngryData » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 6:39 AM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #35

dvlsg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I agree with that. There is a lot of really good new music, just like there is a lot of bad old music. The difference is the bad old music has already been forgotten, but the bad new music is recent enough to still be somewhat memorable. For now.

Good music depends on what you like. Rock is a dead genre now, if you don't like edm or trap/hip hop then what new music are you listening to?

A lot of new genres, that aren't what most people would consider EDM, are hidden under both real and imagined EDM labels in some crazy subgenre. If you are avoiding all EDM because you don't like some shit trance or techno, you could be missing out on a lot of other music just because mainstream music giants don't like it. There are hundreds of electronic music streams going on right now that all have different genres and styles, but if you looked on like XM radio, there is only two streams and both are mostly trash house dance music.

I think a lot of people just don't get exposed to a lot of great new music just because they avoid the electronic label over assumptions of what it will be. But that label means it could be anything and isn't much better than calling it post 2000s music.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#46

Post by tayo42 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 7:04 AM UTC

devilcius wrote: post #40

tayo42 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good music depends on what you like. Rock is a dead genre now, if you don't like edm or trap/hip hop then what new music are you listening to?

https://bandcamp.com/tag/rock

What point are you trying to make? I could do the same thing for disco. People might release it that doesn't mean the genre is thriving or healthy

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#47

Post by tayo42 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 7:07 AM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #39

tayo42 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good music depends on what you like. Rock is a dead genre now, if you don't like edm or trap/hip hop then what new music are you listening to?

Rock is by no means dead. There are dozens of new releases on bandcamp and its still quite popular as far as I know. Sure I believe the genre has suffered during the pandemic, as many artists rely on live performance, but that would only mean that rock would be hyphenating. But its not. Artists still find ways to release new rock music as evident on their preferred platform.

I don't think indie artists trying to release music on bandcamp is a status of health. There isn't anything new or interesting happening in the genre. Rock in its current form, is nothing like it was for the 50s up to 2010s.

Tbis isn't some random thing Im saying https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/gene-simmons-r...

(though I dont agree with the reason he gives)

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#48

Post by andreareina » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 7:54 AM UTC

denimnerd42 wrote: post #5

shadowofneptune wrote: post #3

Simple answer might just be that there's only so much that can differentiate one streaming service from another. If we're making comparisons to the traditional music industry, the streaming services might not be the labels -- they could be the recording formats. Just as with buying a CD player vs buying a Minidisc player, very few people with go through the cost or effort to use many different forms of media.

I still think automated playlist creation has a ways to go. That would be the differentiator to me. I hate spending time creating playlists because I have horrible memory of bands and song names. For some reason there isn't enough feedback on the app I use though. For example there's no "I love this song, but you've played this song too much for me lately"

I feel like Pandora was very good for this, at least up to the point that I left the States and could no longer subscribe.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#49

Post by grawprog » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly.

Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection.

Music discovery is easy, relying on a streaming service for discovery is lazy. What's hard is commitment. Taking time to explore the back catalogue of artists you like and taking the time to get to know music.

When all you had was physical media, you listened to albums over and over got to know them, relished the new albums you purchased and had to take the time to decide between one or the other.

When you heard a new song on the radio or through a friend, there was anticipation. You had to wait before you could listen on your own. Whether it was a slow download on icewire or that wait until you could go buy an album, acquiring music gave you something streaming music doesn't.

It gave you forced limitation, which in turn I feel like led to a greater appreciation towards music. It wasn't just something tou consumed, it was something you waited for, finally acquired and then got to enjoy and became part of the rest of 'your music.'

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#50

Post by Bayart » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 7:58 AM UTC

wolco2 wrote: post #10

systemvoltage wrote: post #4

I can't remember the last time I sat down and spent dedicated time just listening to music. It is the same restlessness that I have when I try to medidate. Songs are just boring and I need to have an excuse to listen to music - like driving so I can optimize the time. "I am driving, might as well take advantage of some music". The internet has ruined peace, fun, and everything that I remember growing up. :-(

Try listening to older music. It's less boring and tries to bring out an emotion. A lot of the newer music has proshopped out any real emotion.

Music has always been extremely formulaic. That's its very nature : using tropes we're accustomed to to provoke an emotional reaction. But it certainly is less formulaic now than it was a few centuries ago.