Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#141

Post by Bayart » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:03 PM UTC

friendlybus wrote: post #96

Bayart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Music has always been extremely formulaic. That's its very nature : using tropes we're accustomed to to provoke an emotional reaction. But it certainly is less formulaic now than it was a few centuries ago.

Less formulaic now? Pop music is becoming more repetitive. [0] People like Max Martin producing an amazing amount of hit pop songs leads me to think it's more formulaic. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_tjFwcmHy5M

Yes, less formulaic. Classical music is far more formal than any sort of pop music and can quite literally be algorithmically generated.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#142

Post by BLKNSLVR » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

fb03 wrote: post #133

oblio wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or maybe i'm just getting old and cranky. Quite likely. There are a lot of studies that show that we're "programmed" to like music we listened to as teenagers. Even though we like other kinds of music we listen to as adults, they don't trigger the same level of response in the brain.

I can agree, but what makes me doubt it is that "back in the day" (oh shit) we had lots of mainstream music that was different between themselves. we had the hiphoppers, we had the people that craved fast "whitney houston remix" level high energy dance stuff, we had the "hey i'm mean" rockers. all sharing the top charts. if you take the medium bpm between the top 100 billboard tracks right now it must be somewhere be…

> but srsly, don't you feel music is just becoming a pasteurized smear of the 'same' ?

Yes, but only the 'popular' music that's forced on me at every opportunity. It's a great big smear that bleeds in and through itself unless it's just one big scab with slightly different colours in slightly different areas.

The music I choose to listen to, both old and modern, both the new to me and also the familiar, is widely varying. I feel like I have ADD when it comes to musical taste. In creating a 'playlist for right now' I'll get bored of a song that's up next because I've scrolled on to a different artist and already started playing their songs in my head and want to listen to them NOW instead of the song I choose three minutes ago. World music, rock, jazz, blues, electronic, psychedelic, I love music crossing all these boundaries and want to fit them all in.

As such, I truly don't understand the acceptance, by seemingly most of society, of the bland sameness (smear) of the 'top 40'. But it's human laziness and 'better things to do'.

'They' obviously don't feel it in their souls like I do, like we do. And I pity them what they're missing.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#143

Post by foepys » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:12 PM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #137

foepys wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read this: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-worlds-email-encrypti... The person maintaining GnuPG went nearly broke because nobody donated to this widely used project. Only because corporations stepped up, GnuPG didn't go unmaintained. This is a constant issue and hardly anybody can survive on private donations alone. Government grants and corporate donations keep the lights on.

If that was seriously intended as an analogy, it is at best comparing apples to apple tree fertilizer. One can be appreciated by anyone for its own sake, answering fundamental human needs; the other can only be used by certain qualified technicians. 100% of people who heard my song in background of John Streamer’s Minecraft speedrun are capable of enjoying music for its own sake. (In fact, they may be more likely to…

> 100% of people who heard my song in background of John Streamer’s Minecraft speedrun are capable of enjoying music for its own sake.

Why doesn't the streamer use their marketing power to promote independent musicians that don't have big record label deals then? That would be even better because successful independent musicians weaken the music industry and could lead to more competition.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#144

Post by BLKNSLVR » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #125

fb03 wrote: post #124

While I really like what music streaming services gave me (an opportunity to explore quickly lots of new music), I think it is also coaxing, pasteurizing and generalizing music to the 'most added value possible' or 'most hype created possible per track', to which the epitome of this concept is called 'lo fi hip hop music', which now everyone making mainstream music tries to emulate or incorporate. I know this will so…

> or maybe i'm just getting old and cranky. Quite likely. There are a lot of studies that show that we're "programmed" to like music we listened to as teenagers. Even though we like other kinds of music we listen to as adults, they don't trigger the same level of response in the brain.

There's liking music and then there's nostalgia. I think they're two different things but they both sound the same.

If a person only likes the music of their generation then they don't like music, they like nostalgia.

There's music I liked as I was growing up, loved in fact, but listening to it now is like listening to myself talking about "what I want to be when I grow up"; it's a child's narrow perspective of the world. Some music that I liked I'm embarrassed by, although I understand it was a journey to my musical appreciation of today, and so I'm deeply thankful for its part in that journey.

I'm not a particularly nostalgic person, so I'm immune to that effect of music, so I think I can offer a somewhat more objective viewpoint.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#145

Post by lucb1e » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #33

randycupertino wrote: post #12

I think less people commuting during the pandemic and sheltering in place probably corresponded to less hours streaming music. My biggest use of spotify was when I commuted and now that I wfh I rarely even open the app. I've been finding audiobooks more relaxing lately than music, not entirely sure why.

Don't need to stream music to drown out office noise either now

If you need to "drown out" noise while in the office, I think there might be something wrong at your workplace. For me home, where you and neighbours are typically off, has always been more loud than workplaces where you need to concentrate.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#146

Post by BLKNSLVR » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

errantspark wrote: post #31

runarberg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice, go for a walk. Download VLC on your phone (or any alternative that is ad-free), upload a CD or two you like to it, find some headphones (any headphones will do), start your CD and walk out the door. Walk as long as you feel like, stop for a soda pop if you feel like it and pause your CD while you are disturbed. If you arrive back before the CD finishes, that’s fine, try again for a longer walk (or a shorte…

I second this. I've got an old iPod and I go on walks daily listening to albums, playlists, sometimes just queuing stuff up on the fly as the mood strikes me. Never skipping a song that starts playing. Tetris and Quake 3 vs bots also work very well to calm my mind so that I can zone into the music itself. YMMV P.S. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jScy-kdCY4M <- this song is beautiful and I hope it makes some of y'all…

Since you mentioned Quake 3, I like listening to track 5 of the original Quake soundtrack. As a song.

Welcome to your claustrophobic terror: https://youtu.be/UMcFgMbhU1w

And something for the feels, this is the soundtrack to ones ascent to heaven: https://youtu.be/LO7x_T7JP9k

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#147

Post by yowlingcat » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

fb03 wrote: post #124

While I really like what music streaming services gave me (an opportunity to explore quickly lots of new music), I think it is also coaxing, pasteurizing and generalizing music to the 'most added value possible' or 'most hype created possible per track', to which the epitome of this concept is called 'lo fi hip hop music', which now everyone making mainstream music tries to emulate or incorporate. I know this will so…

> or maybe i'm just getting old and cranky.

I think there's an additional dimension to it, which is the songwriting and composition itself. The lo-fi hip hop flavor that you note is part of the production style. However, you could just as easily produce a song with a different style and it will still be the same song.

Perhaps what you are irritated by is that there's no substance to the song underneath the style. That seems to be pretty common with pop music today, sadly. But while that is true, it was equally true one, or, two, or three decades ago.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#148

Post by joshspankit » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

josephg wrote: post #60

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery. I used to go to music shops and browse albums, and I had no idea which CD would be worth my money because I couldn’t listen to them and find out! Even from a band I like I would often buy their other albums then get home and be disappointed because they didn’t work for me. In comparison, spotify will find a…

I was lucky enough to have a library with a massive cd collection. Moving fast it would still take me 4-5 hours to flip through and grab ones that might end up being interesting.

That and radio were my discovery processes and it worked great.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#149

Post by BLKNSLVR » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:42 PM UTC

canofbars wrote: post #88

wolco2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try listening to older music. It's less boring and tries to bring out an emotion. A lot of the newer music has proshopped out any real emotion.

I find a lot of older music sounds very muffled and poorly mastered where as some modern stuff like Tipper are incredible experiences especially on high end headphones. Some of this modern stuff is completely unreal. But if all you listen to is old music and the top 10 pop songs I'm not surprise you would miss this. Have a listen to this, its one of the most amazing things I have listened to https://www.youtube.com/w…

Thanks for the link to Tipper, as a fan of Shpongle,I think I'll like a trip (possibly literally) through some of Tipper's catalogue.

But, incredible stereo effects does not equal great music. Great music may or may not have great stereo effects. Music may be muffled and grainy, but that's a reflection of the available technology, it says nothing of the quality of the music itself.

1966, great music, Zappa was ahead of his time with production: https://youtu.be/girnJH7tvpM

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#150

Post by redis_mlc » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

throwaway13337 wrote: post #44

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a l…

> The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs.

Just to clarify ...

Almost all of the Youtube takedowns are not DMCA. They're Youtube policy takedowns. But even then, music takedowns are pretty rare, since usually those videos are "demonetized", meaning the channel doesn't get paid, but the "registered" rightsholders are.

I put "registered" in quotes because usually the registration database is private and unverified, and correcting it to get paid is nearly impossible. (Getty Images does the same thing with photo rights - just use "Getty" as the owner placeholder.)