CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14) • Hacker News Board

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#651

Post by ric2b » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 12:36 AM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #349

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not seeing the issues because you're not playing the affected versions. Notice how all of the positive anecdotes are coming from PC players? IGN went so far as to split their Cyberpunk 2077 review into two separate reviews: One for consoles, and one for PC. Quote from the console review: > The Xbox One/PS4 version is nearly unrecognizable compared to the PC version. The PC version scored 9/10 and the console v…

> The PC version scored 9/10 and the console version scored 4/10. CD Projekt games historically have been PC with console ports after launch. They probably would have done the same here if not being pushed to be a launch title for "next gen" consoles. I think Sony/Microsoft are just as much to blame. They also had to QA the game and sign off on it.

But... It's not a lunch title for the new consoles. The only versions released were PC, PS4 and Xbox One.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#652

Post by thaeli » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #588

anonunivgrad wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re very unlikely to spend that much. If you have multiple serious medical emergencies in the span of one year, $7000 is nothing for having your life saved and getting treatment. Also, the cap is usually much lower than $7000. Also, remember, they’re still covering ~90% of every individual expense. By the time you’ve spent $7000, the insurance company has put down many times that. Our medical providers are competi…

>>It’s a strange mindset to think that something should just be free. When it comes to healthcare? Yes, it should absolutely be free to the recepient. I don't know why it's such a strange concept to you - afer all, Americans are also used to receiving certain services for free - you don't have to pay the police for coming to help you, or the fire brigade for that matter. To me it's the same thing - if your house on f…

> if your house on fire, the fire brigade will come and help, free of charge

Unless you're in a "no pay, no spray" area and haven't paid your fire subscription fee. Wish I wasn't being serious.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#653

Post by zemo » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 2:04 AM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #383

zemo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably CDPR employees are not afraid to convey such bad news to the management. it seems pretty clear that they're terribly abusive employers, so if anything I would assume the opposite is true: that it's an environment where the QA staff is chronically underpaid, lives in perpetual fear of dismissal, and is told that working on the biggest game ever is the honor of a lifetime.

> it seems pretty clear that they're terribly abusive employers How so? They changed the revenue based bonuses to be paid out regardless of review averages [0]. They at least tried to make a commitment to less crunch, while over at Rockstar the amount of crunch for RDR2 was something the co-founder publicly bragged about [1]. Now people on forums are citing RDR2 as an example for "How to make a great open world game!…

lot of problems with this comment.

First of all, it's not a double standard: Rockstar faced similar criticism because of the crunch culture surrounding the development of RDR2. The specific article you mentioned wound up being terrible PR for Rockstar; as a direct consequence of that article, their behavior was widely criticized: https://www.engadget.com/2018-10-25-red-dead-redemption-2-re... https://kotaku.com/inside-rockstar-games-culture-of-crunch-1...

etc. Search "Red Dead Redemption crunch" or "Rockstar Games crunch" and you'll find loads of similar articles.

and the other problem is the usage of the term "lynching". Lynching refers to a vigilante execution by citizenry having no legal authority. It overwhelmingly refers to hate crimes along the basis of race or religin. By contrast, CD Projekt is a corporation worth billions of dollars that is being called out for treating its employees poorly. To equate the two is absurd.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#654

Post by agensaequivocum » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #611

agensaequivocum wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When it comes to healthcare? Yes, it should absolutely be free to the recepient. Medical care requires the labor of others. You have no right to it, nor should you put a gun to their head and demand it.

Yeah, no, hard disagree. Every citizen should have the right to free healthcare, and it should be provided for everyone, regardless of any other factors. Roads require labour of others to build and maintain, yet every American would object if they suddenly had to pay to use them to get anywhere - how is that any different. You're just moving the line elsewhere, but the exact same principles exist in America too.

Two points:

1. Free travel is a right. At it's most basic, walking requires nothing from anyone else.

2. Everyone benefits from the economy being able to function. Only one person benefits from a person receiving a free million dollar medical procedure.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#655

Post by SkyPuncher » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 3:01 AM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #240

pavlov wrote: post #7

This company has probably the shittiest gamified bonus system that I've ever heard of: "CDPR leaders would hand out tokens every month to staffers who went above and beyond, and those tokens were supposed to be transferrable into bonuses if the game met “certain criteria, like critical acclaim and a timely release,” according to the report." [1] Get paid in "crunch mode experience points" handed out by middle manager…

Why is this sort of practice so common with video game studios but not elsewhere in the technology industry?

It's common in tech two.

Of the places I've worked that promise some form of bonus, I have only been paid a single one - $172.

In my experience, bonuses are almost solely a carrot to hang over people's head. They rarely actually get paid out even if the company is doing well.

Stock and options have there downfalls, but at least their terms are in writing.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#656

Post by gambiting » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:50 AM UTC

agensaequivocum wrote: post #654

gambiting wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no, hard disagree. Every citizen should have the right to free healthcare, and it should be provided for everyone, regardless of any other factors. Roads require labour of others to build and maintain, yet every American would object if they suddenly had to pay to use them to get anywhere - how is that any different. You're just moving the line elsewhere, but the exact same principles exist in America too.

Two points: 1. Free travel is a right. At it's most basic, walking requires nothing from anyone else. 2. Everyone benefits from the economy being able to function. Only one person benefits from a person receiving a free million dollar medical procedure.

1) free healthcare is a basic right

2) everyone benefits from the economy having healthy citizens who aren't worried about medical bankruptcy. It's not true that only one person benefits from receiving a million dollar medical procedure . Also outside of US medical operations don't cost a million dollars.

Like, we're just not going to agree here.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#657

Post by T3RMINATED » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 9:28 AM UTC

This is BS -- the game was built for old gen consoles!!! Its intent was never the PS5 period. They failed.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#658

Post by gambiting » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:48 AM UTC

agensaequivocum wrote: post #654

gambiting wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no, hard disagree. Every citizen should have the right to free healthcare, and it should be provided for everyone, regardless of any other factors. Roads require labour of others to build and maintain, yet every American would object if they suddenly had to pay to use them to get anywhere - how is that any different. You're just moving the line elsewhere, but the exact same principles exist in America too.

Two points: 1. Free travel is a right. At it's most basic, walking requires nothing from anyone else. 2. Everyone benefits from the economy being able to function. Only one person benefits from a person receiving a free million dollar medical procedure.

>> At it's most basic, walking requires nothing from anyone else.

Also, to add to this point - no, walking anywhere requires permission from whoever owns the land you are walking upon. Americans also are incredibly restrictive here, despite being the land of freedom. In UK you have the right to roam[0], where you are allowed to walk through someone's private lands(as long as you don't damage anything). In the US try walking through someone's land - you will be shot in the worst case.

[0] https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-ri...

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#659

Post by lm28469 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 12:01 PM UTC

kharak wrote: post #132

TheGuyWhoCodes wrote: post #42

Having played cyberpunk on PC it's mostly a fancy light show and not a lot of substance. You can't even customize anything past the creation screen, no car paint jobs no hair cuts and no body modification, no transmog system.. They tried to hide the console issues while reaffirming time and time again that current-gen console will be a first class citizen, that's an EA tactic not something that CDPR I thought I knew…

Playing it on PC and I'm really enjoying it. There seem to be two factions: Anyone who expected a GTA like open world game has to be severely disappointed. But if you're there for the story and Cyberpunk look & feel, you'll have a good time. Of course, this excludes the console issues. Console players got shafted. CD Project might be able to fix that to some degree, but the reputational damage is done.

> Anyone who expected a GTA like open world game has to be severely disappointed

I personally don't expect a GTA like game, but I would expect an AI/police mechanism at least as good as gta3 (2001), and it's clearly not the case which is ridiculous.

Having 2020 graphics/interactions coupled with early 2000s AI breaks the immersion so bad

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#660

Post by freeflight » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

zemo wrote: post #653

freeflight wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems pretty clear that they're terribly abusive employers How so? They changed the revenue based bonuses to be paid out regardless of review averages [0]. They at least tried to make a commitment to less crunch, while over at Rockstar the amount of crunch for RDR2 was something the co-founder publicly bragged about [1]. Now people on forums are citing RDR2 as an example for "How to make a great open world game!…

lot of problems with this comment. First of all, it's not a double standard: Rockstar faced similar criticism because of the crunch culture surrounding the development of RDR2. The specific article you mentioned wound up being terrible PR for Rockstar; as a direct consequence of that article, their behavior was widely criticized: https://www.engadget.com/2018-10-25-red-dead-redemption-2-re... https://kotaku.com/insid…

Rockstar didn't receive "similar" criticism. They got some fallout over that interview, but the whole issue was very much forgotten the moment the game was released and everybody was just fawning over all the details.

At that point working conditions at Rockstar became a side-topic barely mentioned in reviews and discussions about the game, if at all.

While with CP2077 CDPR at least tried to do better, they set for themselves the goal not to crunch, take the time the game needs, they were not in the press giving interviews glorifying crunch as something awesome and necesseary.

Which for such an ambitious project was aiming very high, maybe naively so, but at least they tried. Yet currently the majority of discourse around the game is dominated by what an evil company CDPR is for still having to put in crunch. To such a degree where mentioning anything positive about the game will trigger responses talking about "slave labor". Which often is, quite uncynically, followed up with "Just look at Rockstar, that's how you make a proper open-world game!", a lot of eating the cake while still wanting to have it.

So what's the lesson here? That crunch is only bad if the resulting product ain't an unmitigated Rockstar style success?

> (lynching) It overwhelmingly refers to hate crimes along the basis of race or religin.

It overwhelmingly refers to the practices by Charles Lynch punishing loyalist supporters of the British during the American Revolutionary war, which had nothing to do with race or religion. Colloquially used it refers to citizen vigilante justice, and that's very much how a lot of this CDPR hate feels like.

> CD Projekt is a corporation worth billions of dollars that is being called out for treating its employees poorly.

CDPR is not even worth half a billion, they are a dwarf compared to actual billion dollar corporations like Take2, Ubisoft, EA or Activision Blizzard.

CDPR also has pretty much the best pro-consumer practices track-record out of all of them, releasing AAA titles with not even as much DRM as a serial; Just an executable anybody could copy and distribute.

They don't sell single-player games with predatory MTX as all the aforementioned publishers do, even for single-player games.

They at least tried to make an commitment to less crunch and taking their time, until the realities of investor financing forced their hand.

Yet apparently none of that is worth any goodwill, nor do labor-rights at companies like Ubisoft, EA or ActiBlizz really factor in any of these discussions right now, even tho they also just released massive games that very likely involved crunching to get them out of the door.

I would understand this whole situation if they all faced criticism like that, particularly the actual billions dollar worth corporations, but that's not happening: Ubisoft and ActiBlizz get a complete pass, while CDPR is made out to be the new EA of the industry.